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I just don't know what to say about this! Fake videos!
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Posted on Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:56 am

### psi_manipulator_3000

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 1274

I'm feeling a little guilty since i kind of spawned this mass war between non-believers and believers. So we should probably stop posting or it's just gonna climax again. We all have opinions. That's the bottom line. And that's all that's been concluded in this topic. End.

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Posted on Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:07 pm

### Kief

Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 120

"If Kief interest in the subject is only to suggest we "Get real" and that we are only fooling ourselves,"
I would hope it's understood in a sense that I'm not discounting paranormal phenomena, but I would like people to get real about phenomena that isn't paranormal, and to also keep a very open, cautious, and skeptical mind of all things related to the paranormal.
"It appeared to me while reading this that he didn't want to do that due to religious beliefs of some kind (for example, the acknolwedgement of paranormal, vague references linking psionics and devil worship, etc)"
No not at all. My use of christianity, satan, etc., is only used to make an example. It's easy to use, but I am in no way christian or subscribe to any sort of christian mythology. I was trying to make a point that one does not inherently know the cause of any given phenomena... Another person in another one of the forums started a thread suggesting that such phenomena may be the result of some sort of connection between ghosts(whatever they may be) and themselves. I am not entirely oppoesed to such a clever idea.
I have not generally made any acknowledgement of any kind of what sorts of "things" I can "do" or not do, and how I do it. For many reasons I do this, one especially being that I do not think any such ability can be taught or just tried out.
Indeed it could be that christianity is true, and if it were, this is devil worship and evil and what not. Luckily, christianity is a cult and none of that stuff is true in any form
But I was trying to present some examples, as christianity is very large and popular, and many christians will counter any claims of psionics or the paranormal by saying that this is something demonic and that satan is decieving you (or even that it is a gift from god). As such one must be able to sufficently counter any claims of that nature.
"Conversely the only evidence Kief shows are videos showing how you can perform PK by 'normal' means."
Evidence I posted shows how normal tricks can liken the performance of pk, but I have been trying to stress how previous evidence I didn't post shows that one can think they are moving a pinwheel (with psi) when it is actually heat or wind, or a combination. With what I did I knew I was doing and intentionally made the trick to show the effect via some mechanism of illusion. On the other hand people may not have the intent of deception but by no trick of their own save for natural ecological effects, create the effect they desire.

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Posted on Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:13 pm

### Apollo

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1589

Nobody respond! NO MORE ARGUEING! I dont want to lock this topic because the beginning was great. If you choose to reply, reply to the origional FIRST post.

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Posted on Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:05 pm

### Kief

Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 120

So you want to stifle more discussion apollo? What the crap man.

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Posted on Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:04 pm

### SumacMaster

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 13

Hey, comon, we are still having fun here. This thread was hijacked 3 pages ago.
"I would hope it's understood in a sense that I'm not discounting paranormal phenomena, but I would like people to get real about phenomena that isn't paranormal, and to also keep a very open, cautious, and skeptical mind of all things related to the paranormal."
Yes, I understood that. You have mentioned the paranormal before as someone who has experienced 'something'. I perhaps should have phrased it along the lines of 'He doesn't want us to mistake normal phenomenon to paranormal ones'. To, in a sense, keep an understanding of other things that could be happening besides psionics. My bad if it came off that way.
"No not at all. My use of christianity, satan, etc., is only used to make an example. It's easy to use, but I am in no way christian or subscribe to any sort of christian mythology. I was trying to make a point that one does not inherently know the cause of any given phenomena... Another person in another one of the forums started a thread suggesting that such phenomena may be the result of some sort of connection between ghosts(whatever they may be) and themselves. I am not entirely oppoesed to such a clever idea.
I have not generally made any acknowledgement of any kind of what sorts of "things" I can "do" or not do, and how I do it. For many reasons I do this, one especially being that I do not think any such ability can be taught or just tried out.
Indeed it could be that christianity is true, and if it were, this is devil worship and evil and what not. Luckily, christianity is a cult and none of that stuff is true in any form
But I was trying to present some examples, as christianity is very large and popular, and many christians will counter any claims of psionics or the paranormal by saying that this is something demonic and that satan is decieving you (or even that it is a gift from god). As such one must be able to sufficently counter any claims of that nature. "
Thank you for correcting me, I sometimes assume examples people give come from their own experiences. Again, my fault. However, passing judgement that Christianity is a cult is into religion and therefore out of the realm of discussion. (And seeing as how some people here want you gone we shouldn't dealve into it. )
"Evidence I posted shows how normal tricks can liken the performance of pk, but I have been trying to stress how previous evidence I didn't post shows that one can think they are moving a pinwheel (with psi) when it is actually heat or wind, or a combination. With what I did I knew I was doing and intentionally made the trick to show the effect via some mechanism of illusion. On the other hand people may not have the intent of deception but by no trick of their own save for natural ecological effects, create the effect they desire."
Again, point taken. I've tried TK before and got what some would call immeadiate results. In my particular instance the psi-wheel was under a plastic bowl sealed off from air currents. When I saw that I could only move it when I rubbed and touch the plastic, I remembered that rubbing plastic creates static electricity and therefore produced a charge because of which my psiwheel moved. Also, I have gotten it to do things before just with the heat from my hands.
The point is if you are starting to practice is to have a clear understanding of your environment as well as the effects you cause interacting with it. Is it healthy for a beginner who doesn't understand what heat from the hands or static electricity can do to believe they are doing it when they aren't? Maybe, maybe not, I don't really know. But I have always been of the opinion that the truth in any situation doesn't hurt.

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Posted on Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:28 pm

### Apollo

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1589

Kief wrote:
So you want to stifle more discussion apollo? What the crap man.

No. i am not trying to "stifle" a discussion. This talk goes in the "Skeptics" page. That is what it is made for. There is a reason that there are subjects for the topics. make one in the skeptics part. Not here. STAY ON TOPIC.

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Posted on Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:01 pm

### Kief

Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 120

The topic is about pinwheel videos and tricks that make pinwheels move. Again my last post touches on this. What the hell is with this off topic BS?
The topics in THIS thread pertain to tricked PK videos. Of which not many posts have made any sort of deviation, on both sides of the issue. Since this is a PK forum, it stands to reason that it is a good place for this kind of discussion. If because this topic deals with PK in a more skeptical sense, it should be moved to the skeptic forum where it can be continued there if one feels that it does not belong here.
Why don't YOU stay on topic? You keep trying to get this thread locked any which way you can. What are you afraid of. The only one off topic here is you, who keeps blabbering about "staying on topic" and that if there are any more replies or any kind of discussion in the thread it will be locked. I call that kind of thing "BS".

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Posted on Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:52 pm

### Zemeon

Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 269

ya i hate this guy.

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Posted on Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:59 pm

### Lerygen

Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 132

Nah, those videos all real. Almost positive that's all just heat from mugs. But yeah anyway I'm pretty sure Apollo's a moderator too, not just "trying" to get it locked, he could if he wants.

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Re: I just don't know what to say about this! Fake videos! on Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:12 pm

### Apollo

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1589

psi_manipulator_3000 wrote:

Ok. First of all I am quite speechless at this website i have found, not only because he is able to fake pk vids but he is also really bumming the phsychic comunity down with it. And don't get me wrong, people who look at this will become skeptics really easily and i must say it squandered me at first! Although he must have a noodle in his head to know about it but... well go to this link and you will see what it's about: http://www.thekeyboard.org.uk/Psi%20wheel%20video.html
And read it all too. In contrast to this annoying site it has also given me the idea of actually testing this myself. Anyways, any comments about these vids would be good so we can bi*tch about it.

THIS is what this topic is supposed to be on. "The topics in THIS thread pertain to tricked PK videos." no. This topic is on commenting on the website that was posted (i even bolded that sentence for you).
As Lerygen said, why would i be trying to get the topic locked if i can lock it myself. I think that it started as a great topic and i want to see it go back in that direction.

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Posted on Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:54 pm

### Zemeon

Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 269

what retard...he should be shot and laughed at...

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Posted on Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:59 pm

### Apollo

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1589

zemeon wrote:
what retard...he should be shot and laughed at...

Who?
Calm down and be nice.

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Posted on Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:34 pm

### Kief

Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 120

"Anyways, any comments about these vids would be good so we can bi*tch about it."
"This topic is on commenting on the website that was posted (i even bolded that sentence for you)."
Yes, he asked for comments about these videos that show pk on pinwheels is a trick. And I have been commenting and discussing about these videos that show pk is a trick. Because, ta da! The thread pertains to topics about tricked pk videos.
You want to narrow the discussion down to something so small that it cannot be discussed at all.
Besides, this is an open thread and open forum, I can talk about anything I want. Kittens are cute, pinwheels are fake, and George Washington killed lots of people for free speech. Deal with it

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Posted on Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:35 pm

### Apollo

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1589

i'm sick of you. Obviously you are not mature enough to handle yourself.

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Posted on Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:59 pm

### Rahmid

Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 739

OK! fine keif maybe this WHOLE thread should be locked and moved to the skeptics forum. Either way, you did bring up Pk isn't real

Quote:
There is a reason skeptics will laugh and make fun of you when you claim debunked phenomena is real. "But I still KNOW I was moving it with my mind, I felt it and I know it!" No you don't, that's exactly the kind of illogic that causes you to lose all credibility.

so lets just lock this thread and move on. Not that deep, really. You can yell all you want and we can yell back, nothing will ever change. There will always be the librals in the back shouting "it is real, look" Are the right?? Are they wrong?? No one knows, "we know" but then again "you know." Nothing is going to change.... can we end this now???
Rahmid

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