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Yet another
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Posted on Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:17 pm

### Kief

Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 120

"I believe him. What kind of loser would sit around and make fake telekinesis movies."
Because they are bored and they want other people to think they are cool with what they can seemingly do.
What kind of loser goes around making computer viruses and hacking?
Because they can, and it is fun for them.
"You can believe what ever you want. I know it is real and that is all that matters."
I do not need to believe anything I want, the video is just bad and neither shows anyone anything nor proves anything. It looks quite silly in fact and the paper looks like it is being blown on or that string is pulling it. I am not skeptical of the paranormal but of your ability to perform paranormal feats. It is that kind of attitude that causes you to lose credibility.
If you are taking requests then I could suggest quite a few things I would like to see that would be more convincing.
If paper can be pushed and pulled along a surface, then you should be able to straight up levitate it. I never see this, because it is a more difficult effect to fake and trickery can be seen quite easily without proper care.

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Posted on Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:26 pm

### Apollo

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1589

Kief wrote:
I do not need to believe anything I want, the video is just bad and neither shows anyone anything nor proves anything. It looks quite silly in fact and the paper looks like it is being blown on or that string is pulling it. I am not skeptical of the paranormal but of your ability to perform paranormal feats. It is that kind of attitude that causes you to lose credibility.

Again, I make these videos for people who want them. They are me doing tk, that is all. If you dont believe it (like you have stated), fine by me.

Kief wrote:
If you are taking requests then I could suggest quite a few things I would like to see that would be more convincing.

Again, ALL VIDEOS CAN BE FAKED
Can you read that now ^^? How is making another one going to solve anything?

Kief wrote:
If paper can be pushed and pulled along a surface, then you should be able to straight up levitate it. I never see this, because it is a more difficult effect to fake and trickery can be seen quite easily without proper care.

Have you read or learned anything? I am not even going to respond to that because that will make me angry because it is the type 3 skeptic question.

Kief wrote:
It is that kind of attitude that causes you to lose credibility.

wtf? Do you think i care? I spend my time teaching people tk. I spend my time writing articles for tk. I spend my time reading and responding to emails about tk. Do i care if you dont believe me? Answer that one yourself. You are really starting to piss me off because you are not very nice at displaying your beliefs.

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Posted on Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:14 pm

### Ilich

Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 55

It's been said all over this forum and main site that the object of videos isn't to prove anything...
And actually most hackers/virus creators target a set group. For example, I am under the impression that there are many more hackers around the world willing to hack american sites then the ones willing to hack swiss ones.
And, a question for Apollo--
Do you try to "force" the things you use tk on or do you rather try to "let" it move?

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Posted on Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:52 pm

### Apollo

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1589

Ilich wrote:
Do you try to "force" the things you use tk on or do you rather try to "let" it move?

I dont force it. I kinda let it move. Let it be pushed by the psi from my visualization.

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Posted on Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:39 pm

### ahmed1

Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 367

damn Apollo it is nice u get me crazy i want to roll and slide things like u^^ , for how long did u practice ( monthes or years )? .

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Posted on Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:40 pm

### Kief

Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 120

"Again, I make these videos for people who want them. They are me doing tk, that is all. If you dont believe it (like you have stated), fine by me."
I cannot accept that what I am seeing is TK when there is proof that it is not.
"Again, ALL VIDEOS CAN BE FAKED
Can you read that now ^^? How is making another one going to solve anything?"
Because things can be done, controls, that will help ensure that what is done is not merely a product of natural phenomena and is indeed paranormal, thereby increasing credibility.
"Have you read or learned anything? I am not even going to respond to that because that will make me angry because it is the type 3 skeptic question."
Only that you can't do it. It is not any type of question save for a valid one. You can't levitate it because you can't do it and it doesn't happen. It moves because it is a trick. That's the distinction. If you can overcome gravity and friction and push or pull an object along a given vector, there is no reason for this vector to not be straight up, into your hand, or something of that nature.
Truth be told it is (or should be, given TK is real) more difficult to slide an object than just levitate it. This is because you must overcome the friction caused by air, the friction caused by the surface the object is on, and gravity, to slide an object. To levitate, you need only overcome gravity and the friction caused by air. Surfaces provide lots of friction to hold back objects, but air offers little frictional resistance, though there is a small amount. Nothing that should be able to hold back someone that can overcome gravity and move objects with their mind though.
"wtf? Do you think i care? I spend my time teaching people tk. I spend my time writing articles for tk. I spend my time reading and responding to emails about tk. Do i care if you dont believe me? Answer that one yourself. You are really starting to piss me off because you are not very nice at displaying your beliefs."
It seems you do care as you have invested your time and energy in responding and your getting all pissy.
I do not possess any beliefs. That requires faith and the absence of evidence, 2 things I have no intrest in.
I have been quite nice in pointing out the problems I see.
If I didn't want to be nice, I'd say it utterly sucks both in quality and quantity and is something I can fake in under 2 minutes, AND make look much better with a longer effect duration. Which is true. I could create apparent psionic effects with little effort and with items laying around the house, and film them with my digital camera, and no signs of trickey would be apparent, and it would be more impressive than what you did. If I wanted to go crazy with it I'd have my computer graphics friend touch it up or play with it with digital effects software like Maya.
Just what I see man, just what I see. If it helped me or I thought it was something significantly cool I'd tell you so.
You wanted an honest scientific opinion, I am giving you it. If you do not want an honest scientific opinion, well too bad you are going to get it and have to deal with it

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Posted on Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:56 pm

### mattz1010

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 885

Kief wrote:
"Again, I make these videos for people who want them. They are me doing tk, that is all. If you dont believe it (like you have stated), fine by me." I cannot accept that what I am seeing is TK when there is proof that it is not.

Ok, so actually back up your claim, instead of just saying it.
This argument is regarded useless and biased until further evidence can be brought up. F

fool wrote:

"Again, ALL VIDEOS CAN BE FAKED
Can you read that now ^^? How is making another one going to solve anything?"
Because things can be done, controls, that will help ensure that what is done is not merely a product of natural phenomena and is indeed paranormal, thereby increasing credibility.

And, yes people waste 10 years of their life on something that's been proven to be real, and put videos up on the internet.
Maybe you should take a look outside of your close-minded room, and realize that not everything you believe is right.
This argument has been rated... F

Quote:

"Have you read or learned anything? I am not even going to respond to that because that will make me angry because it is the type 3 skeptic question."
Only that you can't do it. It is not any type of question save for a valid one. You can't levitate it because you can't do it and it doesn't happen. It moves because it is a trick. That's the distinction. If you can overcome gravity and friction and push or pull an object along a given vector, there is no reason for this vector to not be straight up, into your hand, or something of that nature.

And...gravity moves sideways? You realize that gravity exists, and that it's easier to do a longjump than a height jump, and that the difference is significant?
This argument: Phail.

Quote:

Truth be told it is (or should be, given TK is real) more difficult to slide an object than just levitate it. This is because you must overcome the friction caused by air, the friction caused by the surface the object is on, and gravity, to slide an object. To levitate, you need only overcome gravity and the friction caused by air. Surfaces provide lots of friction to hold back objects, but air offers little frictional resistance, though there is a small amount. Nothing that should be able to hold back someone that can overcome gravity and move objects with their mind though.

Yes, and that the difference between gravity sideways and upwards is HIGHLY different.

Quote:

"wtf? Do you think i care? I spend my time teaching people tk. I spend my time writing articles for tk. I spend my time reading and responding to emails about tk. Do i care if you dont believe me? Answer that one yourself. You are really starting to piss me off because you are not very nice at displaying your beliefs."
It seems you do care as you have invested your time and energy in responding and your getting all pissy.
I do not possess any beliefs. That requires faith and the absence of evidence, 2 things I have no intrest in.
I have been quite nice in pointing out the problems I see.
If I didn't want to be nice, I'd say it utterly sucks both in quality and quantity and is something I can fake in under 2 minutes, AND make look much better with a longer effect duration. Which is true. I could create apparent psionic effects with little effort and with items laying around the house, and film them with my digital camera, and no signs of trickey would be apparent, and it would be more impressive than what you did. If I wanted to go crazy with it I'd have my computer graphics friend touch it up or play with it with digital effects software like Maya.

Quite nice? ROFL. You've been a fucking jackass.
If I didn't want to be nice, I'd say you utterly suck in both quality and quantity, which is something I can fake in under 2 minutes. Which is true. I could create apparent personality effects with little effort. If I wanted to, I could go crazy on the computer and act like a total jackass.

Quote:
Just what I see man, just what I see. If it helped me or I thought it was something significantly cool I'd tell you so. You wanted an honest scientific opinion, I am giving you it. If you do not want an honest scientific opinion, well too bad you are going to get it and have to deal with it

He didn't want a biased, highly unresearched opinion, he wanted a real one. You gave him the first, not the latter. If you do want a scientific opinion, Chris, I suggest you look toward the labratories.
You're not the 'scientific decider of the world', Kief. You aren't this bullshit 'honest scientific opinion', because in no way have you presented any facts that you are RELIABLE.
And one last thing? Learn to use the fucking quote option. It's not hard.

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Posted on Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:02 pm

### Fearisalie

Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 86

Quote:
I cannot accept that what I am seeing is TK when there is proof that it is not.

Im sorry but what "proof" would that be. There is no need for you to keep this argument with him up. If you dont believe him, fine. But please dont keep trying to make everyone else feel the same way.

Quote:
Truth be told it is (or should be, given TK is real) more difficult to slide an object than just levitate it. This is because you must overcome the friction caused by air, the friction caused by the surface the object is on, and gravity, to slide an object. To levitate, you need only overcome gravity and the friction caused by air. Surfaces provide lots of friction to hold back objects, but air offers little frictional resistance, though there is a small amount. Nothing that should be able to hold back someone that can overcome gravity and move objects with their mind though.

This is not entirely(sp) true IIRC. When sliding something, you arent going directly against the force of gravity(which if I remember my physics well enough is 10 m/s on earth). In order to levitate an object, you would have to constantly resist the pull of Earths gravity, whereas with pushing or pulling something, you only have to give enough energy for a short sporadic burst. But again, this is just IIRC, and I would like someone to verify this if possible.
I respect the right to your opinion Kief, but I request you dont try and force it on others, which is what you are doing by the looks of it.
EDIT: MAN I type slow

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Posted on Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:05 pm

### Apollo

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1589

"I cannot accept that what I am seeing is TK when there is proof that it is not."
Then stop freakin complaining! Go joinhttp://www.thekeyboard.org.uk/Telekinesis%20Fact%20or%20fantasy.htm
"Only that you can't do it. It is not any type of question save for a valid one. You can't levitate it because you can't do it and it doesn't happen. It moves because it is a trick. That's the distinction. If you can overcome gravity and friction and push or pull an object along a given vector, there is no reason for this vector to not be straight up, into your hand, or something of that nature."
I stand by my decision that you have no experience at all in the psionic community. You have also learned nothing.
"It seems you do care as you have invested your time and energy in responding and your getting all pissy."
Its because you are stupid and making a fool of yourself.
"I have been quite nice in pointing out the problems I see."
Nice? You think you are nice?
After reading Mattz post, i have refrained from posting more in this one reply. just so you know, Kief, Mattz post is right above mine. Dont get lost trying to find it.
Last but not least:
"If I didn't want to be nice, I'd say it utterly sucks both in quality and quantity and is something I can fake in under 2 minutes, AND make look much better with a longer effect duration. Which is true. I could create apparent psionic effects with little effort and with items laying around the house, and film them with my digital camera, and no signs of trickey would be apparent, and it would be more impressive than what you did. If I wanted to go crazy with it I'd have my computer graphics friend touch it up or play with it with digital effects software like Maya."
I have said it 3 times now but i guess you missed it. Here it is again in big blue letters. If you have trouble finding the blue letters, just ask and i will happily shove them up your ass.
ALL VIDEOS CAN BE FAKED!!!!!

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Posted on Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:08 pm

### Apollo

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1589

It seems as if Fearisalie posted during mine.
You are lucky Fearisalie is nice to you. As s/he said, i respect your opinion (or did)

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Posted on Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:14 pm

### Lerygen

Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 132

Ok, well...lets not get angry here. Ok here goes...
When you slide an object, a couple apparent factors are gravity and friction. When you slide it, gravity is increasing the friction so really you only have to overcome a bit of greater friction.
Now when things are suspended in the air and in free fall, most everyone knows that gravity acts upon an object at a downward motion of -9.8 meters per second, dont know exact amount of joules or pounds per square inch but it's definetely greater than the little friction on the ground. Then you have to take into account how heavy an object is. You would have to push with an upward force of that many pounds constantly and for a bit of time to "levitate it."
Just saw someone else posted relatively the same thing, I'm looking for this one video of some guy levitating a foil ball n stuff. Anyone know where that thing is?

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Posted on Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:14 pm

### Arc88

Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 9

yes i have to add that were dealing with TK here. its very new to man. People have yet to accept it as real yet. Kind of like how people didnt believe that the earth was round. Just because its not poplular and well known doesnt mean that TK and psi and stuff doesnt exist. And about the paper being able to go up and levitate. I have seen videos on levitating objects before. If im not mistaken theres on in the media section of www.psipog.net . Its been done, but most arnt that experienced yet. You wont find any truth in anything if u dont have an open mind. Dont make exuses for everything just because your mind cant handle it. Do your own research, maybe go out and try it yourself with an open mind. If you get no succes dont come back and complain, ask for help and it will be given. and about what apollo said. YES all videos can be faked, and alot of stuff is. I could say that the moon landing was faked also, but would you believe me? I hope not.

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Posted on Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:40 pm

### mattz1010

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 885

Heh, well, Kief, I tried to be nice to you, but after seeing the shit you try to put everybody else do, then personally attack me? Fuck being nice.
I can so imagine Kief arguing that the world's flat.
Haha, that would be awesome.
you know there's a "Flat World Party"? Go join that.
Oh, wait, oops. I'm making generalizations again.
Just like you said not to.
Just like you did.

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Posted on Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:47 pm

### deny_tk

Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 24

While i was writing this Lerygen and Fearisalie practically said the same thing but i will post it anyway.

Kief wrote:

Truth be told it is (or should be, given TK is real) more difficult to slide an object than just levitate it. This is because you must overcome the friction caused by air, the friction caused by the surface the object is on, and gravity, to slide an object. To levitate, you need only overcome gravity and the friction caused by air. Surfaces provide lots of friction to hold back objects, but air offers little frictional resistance, though there is a small amount. Nothing that should be able to hold back someone that can overcome gravity and move objects with their mind though.

You are terribly wrong here.
1.
Your subconscious needs to get used to different types of telekinetic movement. So when you are switching from sliding to levitating chances are you won't be getting any results soon, just like switching from spining a pin wheel to rolling a round pencil. That is why many people are still stuck on the pin wheel.
2.
When you levitate something you need to constantly defy gravity, meaning you would have to use force on the selected item constantly. You see from the video that the paper is moved from time to time by an "energy outburst", so let's say he could direct that outburst to move the object upward so it would "jump" up and fall down (but he can't because it is a different type of movement [1.]) , i bet you would say it was done with a string just like this one, so what's the point?
The videos of Jack levitating a foil ball are here:
http://www.freesailing.com/
EDIT: typo

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Posted on Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:51 pm

### Lerygen

Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 132

oh ok thanks dude

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