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a powerful technique involving chi, or 'psi'
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Posted on Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:31 am

### subzero34g

Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 13

Shadow_of_Iga, all i know is that when peebrain sees this topic..he will strangle you . i believe one of his rules are not to talk about ki, etc..just psi.

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Posted on Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:21 am

### netrage

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 16

[No problem, I thought the same thing awhile back Related, but not the same... PSI may also be 'Shen'(spirit), but from the effects of it I've experienced personally, I'd say Jing is the better of the two of what it is.
]
The Jing- is the essense , The chi - is the life Force, and Shen is the spirit.
chi is just anywere in anything, and it flows were the mind is.
You collected the Chi at one place and you directed it to your friends leg when it came to you, at that point the focus of your mind was strong enough to push the collected energy towards hi feet.
In Martial Arts, specially kung-fu, you are trained to control this and then proceed in the practice.
My view is , its not all that complicated as we think, its simple there is energy and it flows were your thoughts do, and once you get enough focus on your thoughts it all becomes easy.
Think for a while - What exactly do we do do in TK ? Just think w/o making it complicated and you will get all the answers

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Posted on Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:56 pm

### Shadow_of_Iga

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 35

thx netrage, that makes sense, it really isn't that hard. i guess its just us narrow minded westerners who are, i think its safe to say 'afraid' of this concept, of being able to do what we do. oh, and if peebrain see's the word 'chi' im sorry, but its what i've been taught thus far. forgive me if i use it, cause i probably won't realize it.

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Posted on Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:16 pm

### Thanatos

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 249

You have a very vivid imagination Shadow_of_Iga, you really remind me of this guy http://www.skyexpress.gr/aidis/radkidslcable.rar. Chi or Ki used in modern martial arts are metaphorical. There is no "Special Energy" involved. You should read about it, maybe it will give you some insight. You should try getting out of the basement.
Oh and maybe i wouldn't be so hard on you if you didn't state you learn't this "Technique" by looking through the internet with your friend in your basement.

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Posted on Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:33 am

### neveza

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 1147

subzero34g wrote:
Shadow_of_Iga, all i know is that when peebrain sees this topic..he will strangle you . i believe one of his rules are not to talk about ki, etc..just psi.

oh, peebs might let him off with a warning, it's not to much of a descussion on that, really he talking about his experience as others are talking about the "chi" and "ki", also more transaltion of words then what they used for.but that is how I see it in this topic.
nice achievement, might be a natural self defense for those whom practice, although I couldn't back that up since I don't have people trying to fly kick me, but that is just my thought.

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Posted on Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:39 pm

### Shadow_of_Iga

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 35

To Thanatos, i appreciate the reply, because i appreciate all the feedback i get on this topic. However, and do not take me rudely, but there are some things i wish to correct you on. You stated the use of ki in modern martial arts as 'metaphorical', when in fact ki is still quite literal when used in today's martial arts. Now, I can understand if your talking about, say, the American style of karate (which is a joke), but I did not take these styles so commonly known here in the US. Secondly, I never stated anything about chi being a type of "Special Energy", being that it is common amongst all living things. Any one who knows anything about chi will tell you that all living beings have chi, so there is nothing special about it, except to the Western mind. Thirdly, I didn't conclude my research in just one night of looking on the internet. I spent the last four years learning everything i know about chi. The technique I executed on my friend took a while of training and research to learn how to do. Oh, and fourthly, it wasn't my basement, it was my friends. Lol, as I said, don't take me as rude, don't take me as rude, don't take me as rude, (repitition instills understanding), because I do appreciate your comment. Thanks again!

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Posted on Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:19 pm

### Thanatos

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 249

Shadow_of_Iga wrote:
To Thanatos, i appreciate the reply, because i appreciate all the feedback i get on this topic. However, and do not take me rudely, but there are some things i wish to correct you on. You stated the use of ki in modern martial arts as 'metaphorical', when in fact ki is still quite literal when used in today's martial arts. Now, I can understand if your talking about, say, the American style of karate (which is a joke), but I did not take these styles so commonly known here in the US. Secondly, I never stated anything about chi being a type of "Special Energy", being that it is common amongst all living things. Any one who knows anything about chi will tell you that all living beings have chi, so there is nothing special about it, except to the Western mind. Thirdly, I didn't conclude my research in just one night of looking on the internet. I spent the last four years learning everything i know about chi. The technique I executed on my friend took a while of training and research to learn how to do. Oh, and fourthly, it wasn't my basement, it was my friends. Lol, as I said, don't take me as rude, don't take me as rude, don't take me as rude, (repitition instills understanding), because I do appreciate your comment. Thanks again!

Western "karate"? Karate is not american, it is in fact japanese. I have been to korea, hong kong and many other places in the asian continent and all the martial arts teachers i have spoken too clearly state that Ki is strictly tied to religion and is not to be taken as any form of "energy". At least it used to be tied, but science has evolved since then. Qi is in fact the Chinese "cultural concept" meaning "life force" or "spiritual energy". It was then translated into japanese "Ki". There are of course many Dojo's that sell "Ki" training to gain more customers and is in fact a scam. Point me to the right direction as to what form of modern martial arts STILL BELEIVE in "Empty Force". Give me names, teachers, arts, your stating facts that go without backup.
Edit: A historical correction here, i am not reffering to where Karate began but where it was most used.
Check out a few of these sites regarding Qi.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empty_Force
A little post analyzing:
"when in fact ki is still quite literal when used in today's martial arts"
Refer to me a modern form / school using "Ki".
"the American style of karate"
Ok now your just being really stupid. I am from europe. Why the hell would i be studying "American" styles? Unless there is a Greek Style of Karate that is also a "Joke".
Karate is always the same "basic" form, if it was changed it would be called something else.
"it wasn't my basement, it was my friends. Lol, as I said, don't take me as rude, don't take me as rude, don't take me as rude, (repitition instills understanding), because I do appreciate your comment. Thanks again!"
How old are you exactly? Do your parents know your fighting in the basement?

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Posted on Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:58 pm

### Shadow_of_Iga

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 35

Again, Thanatos, you misunderstand me. I am quite aware that Karate is not an American style originally. But there is an American style of Karate. Its quite watered down from an original Japanese style, say Okinawan Karate, which is why i stated that American Karate was a joke, because it lacks disciplined training and good teachers. Realize that i am referring to the American style here, not any of the Japanese styles. Yes, ki is a part of the religion of those in the asian continents as you said, but nonetheless it is energy, and it is inside us. As to a modern martial art that involves the use of ki, there is one that i have heard of called Combat Ki, where they teach you somehow to control your ki and to use it to strengthen the otherwise weak parts of your body (i.e., neck, joints, etc.) Oh, i don't know of any Greek styles similar to Karate, but while were on that subject, there is a style of martial arts from Greece that i read about in a magazine, the style is called Pankration, maybe you would like that. You can check it out if you wish. Oh, as to " I am from europe. Why the hell would i be studying "American" styles?", well i'm an American, so why the hell do i practice two styles from Korea and one from Japan? Not to be rude, but it would be good if you want to increase your fighting know-how, to look into styles from other countries. As to my age, i am 17, and i don't just fight in the basement, i will fight with friends anywhere i want to. My parents are aware of my fighting, they don't mind, and why do you keep using the word basement like its a bad thing? Thanks for your replies, love 'em!

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Posted on Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:58 pm

### Thanatos

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 249

Shadow_of_Iga wrote:
Again, Thanatos, you misunderstand me. I am quite aware that Karate is not an American style originally. But there is an American style of Karate. Its quite watered down from an original Japanese style, say Okinawan Karate, which is why i stated that American Karate was a joke, because it lacks disciplined training and good teachers. Realize that i am referring to the American style here, not any of the Japanese styles. Yes, ki is a part of the religion of those in the asian continents as you said, but nonetheless it is energy, and it is inside us. As to a modern martial art that involves the use of ki, there is one that i have heard of called Combat Ki, where they teach you somehow to control your ki and to use it to strengthen the otherwise weak parts of your body (i.e., neck, joints, etc.) Oh, i don't know of any Greek styles similar to Karate, but while were on that subject, there is a style of martial arts from Greece that i read about in a magazine, the style is called Pankration, maybe you would like that. You can check it out if you wish. Oh, as to " I am from europe. Why the hell would i be studying "American" styles?", well i'm an American, so why the hell do i practice two styles from Korea and one from Japan? Not to be rude, but it would be good if you want to increase your fighting know-how, to look into styles from other countries. As to my age, i am 17, and i don't just fight in the basement, i will fight with friends anywhere i want to. My parents are aware of my fighting, they don't mind, and why do you keep using the word basement like its a bad thing? Thanks for your replies, love 'em!

Just because the teachers are bad in Dojo's in america it doesn't mean they would leave something important out of the training such as "Ki" if it existed as such. You still haven't given me a style that uses Ki to disable or attack an oponent without touching them (Empty Force). I would really like if you pointed me to a school or something or someone that actully teaches this. A website? An address? A name? A phone?
I am well aware of Pankratio. I do not like like the style so much as it involves more brute movements and is less of an art than oriental martial arts.
There is a Karate federation in the United Kingdom that is most definatly oriental in origin. I have studied there and have seen no traces of any "Ki". I am not talking about any kind of "Watered Down" version as you call it. As i remember this federation has its base somewhere in japan i will get back to you on the name when i find my old belt.

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Posted on Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:51 am

### Shadow_of_Iga

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 35

Well, not all teachers in America are bad, but many are. I was lucky to find one that wasn't bad, didn't teach any watered-down martial arts, and stuck to traditional oriental teachings. I don't know that much about Pankration, so sorry, i thought it might be something cool. As to a school that teaches how to project ki, it would be hard to find one. But, i have a book written by Dr. Masaki Hatsumi, the 34th master of the Togakure ryu (he and my master are close friends), with an interesting section at the very end of the book. It has a picture of him knocking down like 5 people without touching them, in a technique it calls a "Spirit Shell". They surround him, and he knocks them back, it seems like what i did to my friend but on a bigger scale, since i only did it to one person and he did it to 5. But, i wouldn't know if he would ever be willing to teach this or not, because the book doesn't tell you how to do it, it just tells you it can be done. Not to be rude, but do you consider yourself a person who believes in psi? If so, then why are you so skeptical of ki? Me personally, i keep my mind completely open, letting all ideas and teachings enter it, cause i believe that anything is possible if one believes in it themselves. That is why i joined this site after all, cause i thought there were people on here who weren't skeptical of what we believe, or what i believe anyways.

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Posted on Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:57 am

### Thanatos

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 249

Shadow_of_Iga wrote:
Well, not all teachers in America are bad, but many are. I was lucky to find one that wasn't bad, didn't teach any watered-down martial arts, and stuck to traditional oriental teachings. I don't know that much about Pankration, so sorry, i thought it might be something cool. As to a school that teaches how to project ki, it would be hard to find one. But, i have a book written by Dr. Masaki Hatsumi, the 34th master of the Togakure ryu (he and my master are close friends), with an interesting section at the very end of the book. It has a picture of him knocking down like 5 people without touching them, in a technique it calls a "Spirit Shell". They surround him, and he knocks them back, it seems like what i did to my friend but on a bigger scale, since i only did it to one person and he did it to 5. But, i wouldn't know if he would ever be willing to teach this or not, because the book doesn't tell you how to do it, it just tells you it can be done. Not to be rude, but do you consider yourself a person who believes in psi? If so, then why are you so skeptical of ki? Me personally, i keep my mind completely open, letting all ideas and teachings enter it, cause i believe that anything is possible if one believes in it themselves. That is why i joined this site after all, cause i thought there were people on here who weren't skeptical of what we believe, or what i believe anyways.

PSI has nothing to do with KI. Its hard to even levitate a pencil with PSI. PSI is based on experiments, not martial arts myths.
So when hundreds of published books from japanese writes give emphasis on how Ki is not to be misinterpreted and is in fact spiritual rather then practical (See Placebo). They lie?

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Posted on Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:20 pm

### Shadow_of_Iga

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 35

First of all, ki is not a martial arts myth. Its really quite real, as from my experience. Many people havent awoken to the fact that ki can be used outside of the body as well as inside. Yes, it is a spiritual thing, because (and this coming from a person who believes in God), that ki is the energy given to us by Him. Look at my quote, God gives the spirit without limits! He gives us free will to make our own decisions, to be good or evil, and he gives us the same free will with our own energy, to make it as strong as we want. And there are Japanese people that believe that ki is not just a spiritual thing, have you ever heard that mind, body, and spirit are connected? Since ki is spiritual, then it is connected to our minds, which is how we control it (just like the flow of psi), and our bodies, just like how i did that to my friend. So, still skeptical? Mind, body, and spirit my friend, mind, body, and spirit.

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Posted on Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:10 pm

### Thanatos

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 249

Shadow_of_Iga wrote:
First of all, ki is not a martial arts myth. Its really quite real, as from my experience. Many people havent awoken to the fact that ki can be used outside of the body as well as inside. Yes, it is a spiritual thing, because (and this coming from a person who believes in God), that ki is the energy given to us by Him. Look at my quote, God gives the spirit without limits! He gives us free will to make our own decisions, to be good or evil, and he gives us the same free will with our own energy, to make it as strong as we want. And there are Japanese people that believe that ki is not just a spiritual thing, have you ever heard that mind, body, and spirit are connected? Since ki is spiritual, then it is connected to our minds, which is how we control it (just like the flow of psi), and our bodies, just like how i did that to my friend. So, still skeptical? Mind, body, and spirit my friend, mind, body, and spirit.

You still really haven't told me any modern martial arts school that teaches ki, or a modern martial arts style/form for that matter...

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Posted on Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:32 pm

### Shadow_of_Iga

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 35

Sorry, ok, well there's Tai Chi, Tang Soo Do, and Hwa Rang Do. There are many more (I already mentioned Combat Ki), Aikido, Hsing I, Hapkido(only advanced practitioners of this style learn the use of chi though, I took Hapkido, but never got far enough to learn those techniques), and more. You just gotta do some research. (Make a note that I just listed 7 styles) Oh yea i meant to ask you before, why do you shut yourself off to Pankration and say its "less of a style" than oriental styles. Its still a respected style, a good fighting system, and should be treated as such. Not to be rude, but you should open your mind more to different kinds of fighting styles. That way, you can be better prepared for someone whom you would have to use such a style on. I took three very different martial arts styles, Tae Kwon Do, which is an offensive style utilizing swift kicks and timed footwork, Hapkido, a defensive style utilizing different sets of combo moves to retaliate against an attacker, and the Danzan ryu style of Jujitsu, a style that my master actually did a little fusing with another style, to make it more effective, yet by itself, is an excellent ground fighting style. So, open yourself up more to other styles, it will be good for you, trust me.

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Posted on Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:14 pm

### Thanatos

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 249

You listed some styles, i also asked if you could show websites of Dojo's that proclaim to teach "Ki". Maybe organisation names or phone numbers. I never said pankration is a lesser style, it is just not the type i am looking for, i have done pankratio since i live on the island that invented it.
The styles you listed claim in a "Traditional manner" to use Qi Gong, "Chi" to heal (Reiki), strengthen the immune system and your movements (Punches). They do not however claim to use "Empty Force". (Manifesting chi outside your body). This is mostly based on Taosim beleives (Yin - Yang etc) and NOT the western christian God that you stated before. However with a little research you will see many scientists who have studied these effects have found no actual results leading them to beleive it is merely a placebo effect.
Reiki users in modern times still claim to use paranormal means to heal although have not proved anything.
Empty Force users have never demonstrated under scientific conditions or any other conditions for that matter, their ability to push people over a distance.

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