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Is Psychokinesis Real?

Poll: Is Psychokinesis real?

Yes

100%

[ 38 ]

No

0%

[ 0 ]

What is Psychokinesis?

0%

[ 0 ]

Total Votes : 38

Author | Message
--- | ---
Posted on Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:14 pm

### Kief

Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 120

"i'm sick of you. Obviously you are not mature enough to handle yourself."
I'm not the one going off topic.
You are obviously not mature enough to handle reality.
"Kief, mature? LOL.
Unless included with the word NOT in the same sentence, then the above sentence can never be true."
Wow. What a sound, coherent argument
Did you finally see Wayne's World today or something?
"Did you even address the link on the page? No."
What link? You have posted nothing to further your vapid claims that pinwheels are anything psychokinetic.
"Let's try putting your 'argument of bullshit', to the test, and change some words around."
Ladedadeda more nonsense.
Yes, let's entirely lie about the things I said and twist them around to distort them! You rule
What a great way to stay "on topic" there buddy!
"For the hell of it, I'm just going to use a car jumping over some object on a ramp."
Oops! Argument from analogy, a fallacious argument. Try posting something that means something next time.
"It's obvious you can fake that with some random program on the internet, and that you can do it for real."
Blah blah blah, more nonsense that has anything to do with the issue at hand.
You can't move pinwheels "for real", not with PK at least.
No, you can't fake a video of a car going over a ramp with programs on the internet.
Creating computer graphics of that caliber, that could actually pass as real, requires an expensive ($2000) software program such as Maya, which also requires impressive knowledge and college-level schooling to operate.
"So why are you so convinced that you're right, and that there is no chance whatsoever that psionics can't move the wheel, and it's ONLY air/heat currents?"
Because psionics can't, you are deluding yourself and you know it. The evidence shows that there is nothing psionic involved in the movement of pinwheels. You are pissed off because you know it. Keep up with the immature attacks, I'm notifying the mods about you AND apollo AGAIN.
"Because right now, that's bullshit, and you know it."
No, pinwheel movement by PK is bullshit, and you know it.
"And if you want to take your anti-psychic stuff somewhere where it's applicable, take it to the skeptics forum. That's what it's for, use it.
I didn't start the topic, someone else did.
I'll post wherever the hell I want about whatever I want, go cry to mommy about it and see if anyone cares
"Because the psychokinesis forum is not for fucking around, elitist."
LoL. Apparently it is for fucking around, since you think your moving pinwheels around with heat and air (or just faking it intentionally) is actually psionic or telekinetic when it is not.

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Posted on Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:43 pm

### mattz1010

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 885

So where's some real proof that you have?
And it isn't hard to fake a car jumping. Not at all.
What, analogies...like, the ones you've been using for the past 5 pages of the topic?
Pfft, hypocrite.
Let's attempt to take a look at the rules again.
5. Avoid the mentality of "I'm right, everyone else is wrong"
6. Don't try to manipulate others
4. Research your topic in depth
7. Understand your audience
1. Recognize the source of information
2. Understand the limitations of your source
3. Research evidence without bias
4. Understand different perspectives
6. Present reasonable ways for others to validate your claims
7. Avoid preaching "the truth"
1. Don't attack others
2. Don't look down on others
3. Don't force your beliefs/opinions on others
5. Keep things in perspective
...Oops.
I can at least admit I broke some of the rules.
Can you?
edit: I haven't seen you post a single SHRED of absolute, undeniable proof that ALL pinwheels are fake. Not a single piece. So yes, you CAN stop with your bullshit.

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Posted on Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:53 pm

### Apollo

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1589

Kief wrote:
No, you can't fake a video of a car going over a ramp with programs on the internet. Creating computer graphics of that caliber, that could actually pass as real, requires an expensive ($2000) software program such as Maya, which also requires impressive knowledge and college-level schooling to operate.

So what you are saying is that it is impossible to fake one but if you have that program, you can? So i guess it isnt impossible now is it?

Quote:
Keep up with the immature attacks, I'm notifying the mods about you AND apollo AGAIN.

Heh. Good luck with that. You are the one using the immature jokes. Again, i wish you the best of luck getting someone to care.
But in all realness, i am surprised that you found your way to the skeptics forum and i applaud you for that. Was that an immature attack? no. It is the truth because i asked you repeatedly to take your arguements/attacks here and you (apparently) couldnt find it.

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Posted on Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:54 pm

### mattz1010

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 885

Lol. reporting a mod.
XD
That's the most hilarious thing I've heard yet. And I've heard quite alot.
More than your repressive mind can inhabit, kief.
By the way, the link I was talking about, was one that linked to a Wiki article called "Argument of Ignorance". It fits you very well.
Because what you're spouting is not skepticism, it's ignorance.

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Posted on Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:37 pm

### bladeslinger

Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Posts: 1337

Kief wrote:

"i'm sick of you. Obviously you are not mature enough to handle yourself."
I'm not the one going off topic.
You are obviously not mature enough to handle reality.
"Kief, mature? LOL.
Unless included with the word NOT in the same sentence, then the above sentence can never be true."
Wow. What a sound, coherent argument
Did you finally see Wayne's World today or something?
"Did you even address the link on the page? No."
What link? You have posted nothing to further your vapid claims that pinwheels are anything psychokinetic.
"Let's try putting your 'argument of bullshit', to the test, and change some words around."
Ladedadeda more nonsense.
Yes, let's entirely lie about the things I said and twist them around to distort them! You rule
What a great way to stay "on topic" there buddy!
"For the hell of it, I'm just going to use a car jumping over some object on a ramp."
Oops! Argument from analogy, a fallacious argument. Try posting something that means something next time.
"It's obvious you can fake that with some random program on the internet, and that you can do it for real."
Blah blah blah, more nonsense that has anything to do with the issue at hand.
You can't move pinwheels "for real", not with PK at least.
No, you can't fake a video of a car going over a ramp with programs on the internet.
Creating computer graphics of that caliber, that could actually pass as real, requires an expensive ($2000) software program such as Maya, which also requires impressive knowledge and college-level schooling to operate.
"So why are you so convinced that you're right, and that there is no chance whatsoever that psionics can't move the wheel, and it's ONLY air/heat currents?"
Because psionics can't, you are deluding yourself and you know it. The evidence shows that there is nothing psionic involved in the movement of pinwheels. You are pissed off because you know it. Keep up with the immature attacks, I'm notifying the mods about you AND apollo AGAIN.
"Because right now, that's bullshit, and you know it."
No, pinwheel movement by PK is bullshit, and you know it.
"And if you want to take your anti-psychic stuff somewhere where it's applicable, take it to the skeptics forum. That's what it's for, use it.
I didn't start the topic, someone else did.
I'll post wherever the hell I want about whatever I want, go cry to mommy about it and see if anyone cares
"Because the psychokinesis forum is not for fucking around, elitist."
LoL. Apparently it is for fucking around, since you think your moving pinwheels around with heat and air (or just faking it intentionally) is actually psionic or telekinetic when it is not.

why does it seem that this guy just lingers around to attack people?? When I needed some Empathy and healing help he pointed out my recklessness(which I was well aware of) and now he's upped the ante by just being the whole "I'm right and the whole world is wrong!" guy.......aparently he hasn't bothered to even try these things since he's the Almighty Emperor of the world and everyone knows that he knows EVERYTHING and doesn't like to mess with us simple folk

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Posted on Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:39 pm

### anondude

Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 89

Amen to bladesinger19 the mod need to keep better track of bullies and potential ban them and there bad mouth from the forums all together

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Posted on Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:03 pm

### Apollo

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1589

Moderators (if they are fair) can only ban people if they break the rules repetedly after being warned.

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Posted on Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:17 pm

### mattz1010

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 885

Well, he's been warned twice. Once in the locked topic, and once here again.
Will he abide? Only time can tell.
Well, not really. I'd explain, but it's not really relevant (OMG! LOOK! FOLLOWING RULES!)

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Posted on Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:05 pm

### Teekay

Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 79

Lol, what I just love is the fact that he just butts into this poll topic with quotes from all the other topics that the arguments occurred in. (and were locked right?) Just has to get the last word in. Man, he's just like my dad (and that's pretty sad... It's pointless to argue with the guy, he'll just keep going on and on, and if you point out a flaw of his, he'll just retort with something similar about you.) lol
And I agree with you bladesinger, he does like to make personal attacks to others. In fact, theres a pattern to it, which I'm sure you've all noticed as well. He'll read our posts, then go to the "what age are you" poll tpoic and see how old we are. If were are younger than him, then he simply blows us of with some kind of condescending statement about "children" or "kids" and how imamture we are, apparantly not realizing that in doing so makes himself out to the the immature one. (Oh, and to save you the trouble of all that clicking and page hopping, Kief, I'm 19. I'm just nice like that And yes that makes me a "kid" by your standards. Proud of it too.
What I don't understand is how someone can be so close-minded. I believe you stated in a previous topic you is an aetheist? I am too, but I don't go around telling others they're wrong. How am I to know? I can't exactly prove it either way. Same with this subject. You just need to learn how to get along with people man, such hostility is one of the principle causes behind much of the trouble we have in our world today.
Anyway, back on topic. I personally believe that it is plenty real. Despite the lack of proof, I decided to actually try it out for myself rather than endlessly speculate, and I was rewarded for my time and effort. I vote yes.

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Posted on Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:19 am

### mattz1010

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 885

Apparently, he thinks that maturity comes with absolute age.
Which is obvious bullshit.
(Obviously, absolute is compared to relative. Because it's pretty fucking obvious, that Kief at whatever age he is, isn't even as mature as my goddamn brother. And he's 10.)

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Posted on Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:32 pm

### Kief

Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 120

"So where's some real proof that you have?"
It has already been posted, perhaps you should read it over and over again.
Oh that's right, you've been moaning about this same thing for pages and pages through endless threads everytime you are shown you are wrong. Yawn.
"And it isn't hard to fake a car jumping. Not at all."
Unless you have well made minitures or computer programs and photography equipment that can make it look good, then no, you can't fake it with any air of credibility.
If you think so then why don't you make a video huh comeon lets see you fake a video. Since you claimed it can be done why don't you actually prove it and back up your claims
"What, analogies...like, the ones you've been using for the past 5 pages of the topic?"
I haven't have not used any analogies in a fallacious way.
"Pfft, hypocrite."
You still obviously do not know what that word means.
"Let's attempt to take a look at the rules again. "
Ok, that's a good idea, we can see if you have broken any or not.
"5. Avoid the mentality of "I'm right, everyone else is wrong" "
Yep, you have broken this one.

Quote:
No, they don't. The videos are so obviously faked.

Quote:
And, yes people waste 10 years of their life on something that's been proven to be real, and put videos up on the internet.

Quote:
More than your repressive mind can inhabit, kief.

Quote:
Because what you're spouting is not skepticism, it's ignorance.

Quote:
It's been proven time and time again. You just can't accept that fact because it doesn't fit in with your views on the world.

Quote:
Is there even a point to argue with one who such cannot accept that he is wrong and uses such hypocritical means to justify his ends?

Quote:
Maybe you should take a look outside of your close-minded room, and realize that not everything you believe is right.

"6. Don't try to manipulate others"
I am probably sure you have broken this one.

Quote:
Is there even a point to argue with one who such cannot accept that he is wrong and uses such hypocritical means to justify his ends?

Quote:
Because what you're spouting is not skepticism, it's ignorance.

Quote:
Maybe you should take a look outside of your close-minded room, and realize that not everything you believe is right.

"4. Research your topic in depth "
Yes you definately have broken this rule.

Quote:
It's obvious you can fake that with some random program on the internet, and that you can do it for real.

Quote:
Yes, and that the difference between gravity sideways and upwards is HIGHLY different.

Quote:
Because what you're spouting is not skepticism, it's ignorance.

Quote:
It's been proven time and time again. You just can't accept that fact because it doesn't fit in with your views on the world.

Quote:
Maybe you should take a look outside of your close-minded room, and realize that not everything you believe is right.

Quote:
BTW: The wheel falls off

Quote:
And, yes people waste 10 years of their life on something that's been proven to be real, and put videos up on the internet.

"7. Understand your audience "
Yes you clearly do not understand the world out there and the standards they hold.

Quote:
Maybe you should take a look outside of your close-minded room, and realize that not everything you believe is right.

Quote:
Well, I certainly wouldn't want to be a biased one like you.

Quote:
More than your repressive mind can inhabit, kief.

Quote:
Because what you're spouting is not skepticism, it's ignorance.

Quote:
It's been proven time and time again. You just can't accept that fact because it doesn't fit in with your views on the world.

Quote:
Hell, there's so much close-mindedness about you, I could write a fucking novel.

"1. Recognize the source of information"
This is hard to say, the only "sources" for anything you have presented are 2 websites that refer to psionics. There is no proof or evidence of anything shown. None of their work shows up in any reputable scientific journal, which is probably because no one believes them. Yea sure you broke this one
"2. Understand the limitations of your source"
Yea you clearly do not seem to understand your "sources" limitations.

Quote:
It's been proven time and time again. You just can't accept that fact because it doesn't fit in with your views on the world.

Quote:
And, yes people waste 10 years of their life on something that's been proven to be real, and put videos up on the internet.

"3. Research evidence without bias"
Oh yes, clearly you are in violation of this rule. I am glad you pointed this baby out.

Quote:
BTW: The wheel falls off

Quote:
It's obvious you can fake that with some random program on the internet, and that you can do it for real.

Quote:
Because what you're spouting is not skepticism, it's ignorance.

Quote:
It's been proven time and time again. You just can't accept that fact because it doesn't fit in with your views on the world.

Quote:
And, yes people waste 10 years of their life on something that's been proven to be real, and put videos up on the internet.

Quote:
No, they don't. The videos are so obviously faked.

"4. Understand different perspectives"
God damn you are on a roll today!

Quote:
This thread is now about arguing with people who have conceited views on the world and are too stubborn to accept that they're wrong.

Quote:
Because what you're spouting is not skepticism, it's ignorance.

Quote:
More than your repressive mind can inhabit, kief.

Quote:
Well, I certainly wouldn't want to be a biased one like you.

Quote:
Maybe you should take a look outside of your close-minded room, and realize that not everything you believe is right.

Quote:
Is there even a point to argue with one who such cannot accept that he is wrong and uses such hypocritical means to justify his ends?

Quote:
Hell, there's so much close-mindedness about you, I could write a fucking novel.

"6. Present reasonable ways for others to validate your claims"
Another beauty! Genious! You should be given an award for standing up to all the violations you have made here!

Quote:
You still haven't created YOUR video.

Quote:
I don't think you can. You're just fucking around. Make the video.

"7. Avoid preaching "the truth" "
YEA! Here is another gem you have discovered for us that you continually violate. Good job!

Quote:
Yes, and that the difference between gravity sideways and upwards is HIGHLY different.

Quote:
No, they don't. The videos are so obviously faked.

Quote:
More than your repressive mind can inhabit, kief.

Quote:
And, yes people waste 10 years of their life on something that's been proven to be real, and put videos up on the internet.

"1. Don't attack others"
Bravo! Bravo!

Quote:
Pfft, hypocrite.

Quote:
You've been a fucking jackass.

Quote:
More than your repressive mind can inhabit, kief.

Quote:
Because what you're spouting is not skepticism, it's ignorance.

Quote:
Maybe you should take a look outside of your close-minded room, and realize that not everything you believe is right.

Quote:
Seems you can't actually make real arguments.

Quote:
More than your repressive mind can inhabit

Quote:
is not for fucking around, elitist.

Quote:
Well, I certainly wouldn't want to be a biased one like you.

Quote:
Rantings from a depressed individual.

Quote:
This thread is now about arguing with people who have conceited views on the world and are too stubborn to accept that they're wrong.

"2. Don't look down on others"
Huzzah!

Quote:
Hey, hypocrite.

Quote:
Hell, there's so much close-mindedness about you, I could write a fucking novel.

"3. Don't force your beliefs/opinions on others"
Sweet mother of jesus it's a miracle!

Quote:
You ignorants are great. You don't want to make videos because you know you're wrong.

Quote:
More than your repressive mind can inhabit, kief.

Quote:
Well, I certainly wouldn't want to be a biased one like you.

Quote:
Maybe you should take a look outside of your close-minded room, and realize that not everything you believe is right.

Quote:
Because what you're spouting is not skepticism, it's ignorance.

Quote:
You've been a fucking jackass.

Quote:
It's been proven time and time again. You just can't accept that fact because it doesn't fit in with your views on the world.

"5. Keep things in perspective"

Quote:
This thread is now about arguing with people who have conceited views on the world and are too stubborn to accept that they're wrong.

Quote:
Yeah, and the ones that don't sellout to the media? Where do they get the money from? You must realize that you need money in order to buy food to survive, right?

"...Oops."
Yea man you dun fucked up!
"I can at least admit I broke some of the rules."
Thank Tiamat.
"Can you?"
I haven't exactly broken any rules, but thanks anyway.
"edit: I haven't seen you post a single SHRED of absolute, undeniable proof that ALL pinwheels are fake. Not a single piece. So yes, you CAN stop with your bullshit."
Um, it's up to YOU to prove that a pinwheel moving by pk is real. You have not done that.
There has been plenty of evidence showing that pinwheels are a form of trickery. One very important piece of evidence in this is that a person can be guilty of trickery without knowing it.
There is NO evidence that suggests pinwheels move by telenkinesis or any other paranormal mechanism.
There is plenty of evidence showing how pinwheels DO move via proven naturalistic mechanisms.
If you think psi is moving a pinwheel why don't you hold up the PKE meter and we'll see if there is psi energy coming out of your hands moving the wheel LoL. The PKE meter will show it cause like, those really exist cause psi energy is a real, measurable, quantifiable energy
"That's the most hilarious thing I've heard yet. And I've heard quite alot."
It's already been done. This will be the second time for the both of you.
"More than your repressive mind can inhabit, kief. "
Yawn. More immature insults from a 15 year old.
"By the way, the link I was talking about, was one that linked to a Wiki article called "Argument of Ignorance". It fits you very well. "
You apparently did not even read what an "argument of ignorance" was if you think it fits me well.
"Because what you're spouting is not skepticism, it's ignorance."
Sure sure junior, why don't you prove it. For pages and pages, all you have done is repeatedly attack me. Congradulations.
"Apparently, he thinks that maturity comes with absolute age."
In your case and most all cases, absolutely.
You still have not proven your claim otherwise, whereas I have.
And you and apollo's repeated immaturity does not help your age bracket out and your claims of maturity.
"Which is obvious bullshit."
No, it's not bullshit, it's entirely true.
"(Obviously, absolute is compared to relative. Because it's pretty fucking obvious, that Kief at whatever age he is, isn't even as mature as my goddamn brother. And he's 10.)"
Sure thing, whatever you say. Except you're the one who still persists in personally insulting me, and then lies about it and says I am insulting you when all I am doing is proving your childish statements wrong.

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Posted on Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:33 pm

### Kief

Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 120

"So what you are saying is that it is impossible to fake one but if you have that program, you can? So i guess it isnt impossible now is it?"
Reading is apparently not for you is it?
Did you even read what I said? Christ man. I never said it was impossible to fake the video, only with programs available on the internet. It takes a high caliber CGI program that isn't available without purchasing it (if one were to make the video using CGI - one could use minatures).
"Heh. Good luck with that. You are the one using the immature jokes. Again, i wish you the best of luck getting someone to care."
You can accuse me all you want, but you have no proof of something you yourself are very guilty of.
"It is the truth because i asked you repeatedly to take your arguements/attacks here and you (apparently) couldnt find it."
I don't care about what you say, I only took the discussion here because I could not rightly continue it in the proper thread that it belonged in. You locked it because you want to censor discussion. Meh. Lets see if you censor it here.

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Posted on Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:39 pm

### Kief

Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 120

"why does it seem that this guy just lingers around to attack people??"
Are you even reading? Guess not
"aparently he hasn't bothered to even try these things since he's the Almighty Emperor of the world and everyone knows that he knows EVERYTHING and doesn't like to mess with us simple folk"
Try what, moving a pinwheel with psi? Yea, it doesn't work. When it moves, there is nothing psionic going on.
Have you tried these things out? No, you haven't. If you did, you would have found that there are many non-paranormal explanations for these things.

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Posted on Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:09 pm

### Kief

Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 120

"Lol, what I just love is the fact that he just butts into this poll topic with quotes from all the other topics that the arguments occurred in. (and were locked right?)"
Because censors wanted to move the discussion here and not keep it in the rightful place. I didn't want to have to move it here either but meh.
"Just has to get the last word in."
Well I'm not going to let frauds and liars get away with being fraudulent liars.
"and if you point out a flaw of his, he'll just retort with something similar about you.)"
First I will point out how what one thinks is a flaw actually is not, and their attack usually stems from a perversion of reality.
Then I will retort with something about them, depending on how stupid they have been.
"And I agree with you bladesinger, he does like to make personal attacks to others."
Only when others have attacked me first. Then again, I haven't really attacked anyone. If I state the truth about someone when they are being immature, or are wrong, then this is not an attack, yet people here seem to think it is. That's their problem, not mine.
In fact, theres a pattern to it, which I'm sure you've all noticed as well.
"He'll read our posts, then go to the "what age are you" poll tpoic and see how old we are."
Only for mattz and apollo. Their continued nonsense and insults were on the level of a 14 year old's. And my estimate was correct, they are just immature kids.
If I wanted to do that for the lot of you I would, and I imagine I would find the same thing with those others like you who continue to pseudo-attack me and what I say, wrongly claiming I am being insulting.
Funny, I bet that those who agree with me, and there are quite a few of you out there, are older.
"If were are younger than him, then he simply blows us of with some kind of condescending statement about "children" or "kids" and how imamture we are, apparantly not realizing that in doing so makes himself out to the the immature one."
Not so. When you act your age, and act like a snotty little kid, I am well within my right to state so without being immature myself.
If you want to act stupid, I have every right to say so. If you want to say I am immature for you acting stupid and me pointing it out, well then you probably shouldn't act stupid, because otherwise you don't have much of an argument.
"(Oh, and to save you the trouble of all that clicking and page hopping, Kief, I'm 19. I'm just nice like that And yes that makes me a "kid" by your standards. Proud of it too."
No, that makes you an adult.
Which means you should know better (yet, it appears you don't...)
"What I don't understand is how someone can be so close-minded."
About what? You apparently do not know anything about my position.
What I don't understand is how someone can be so gullible and willing to decieve themselves.
"I am too, but I don't go around telling others they're wrong."
So what?
If you don't like to correct others when they spurt out the most innane stuff their imagination can create, well that's your perogative.
But I am not one for letting people lie and say things about reality that are just not true.
"How am I to know? I can't exactly prove it either way."
If you can't prove it then I would suggest you stay out of the fire. If you can't be sure about something, people will typically define that as an agnostic position. But I don't want to get caught up in semantics, since I would say an agnostic position is inherently atheistic.
I can prove things either way though, so leave this stuff to me.
"You just need to learn how to get along with people man, such hostility is one of the principle causes behind much of the trouble we have in our world today."
Then maybe they shouldn't insult and flame me when I prove them wrong or their ideas about reality wrong.
"Anyway, back on topic. I personally believe that it is plenty real."
Why would you, as you say below without any proof, want to believe that is it real?
It seems to me that you are not an atheist, that psionics is your religion and personal belief system that you have adopted (without any evidence no less).
"Despite the lack of proof, I decided to actually try it out for myself rather than endlessly speculate, and I was rewarded for my time and effort. I vote yes."
Is this like trying out christianity again, just having faith in jesus and you will see results?
Why don't you try jesus too, maybe you will be rewarded there.
And while your at it, try out krishna too, he'll save your immortal soul for sure. Hey, what can it hurt right? Cultists say if you believe you will be rewarded. And generally a person would think so (once they have been brainwashed by the cult).
That's when a pinwheels starts to move by having your hands around it, and you start to think it's psi. But for some reason you can't "get past" the pinwheel. The cult tells you that you just have to believe in jesus more, I mean psi, and if you believe and pray, I mean try, hard enough, you will see psi, I mean jesus, no I mean psi, in action. Self deception is not a miracle.

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Posted on Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:02 pm

### Apollo

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1589

4 posts in a row? Are you bored?

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