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Are "psi-pets" living things?
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Are "psi-pets" living things? on Thu May 18, 2006 10:24 am

### intrepidus6

Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 52

When does a mass of energy become alive? Are psi-pets living things with feelings? If so, does this mean a code of ethics should be developed to protect them from abuse? Just some quistions that came to my mind.

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Re: Are "psi-pets" living things? on Thu May 18, 2006 10:44 am

### Joshy

Joined: 09 May 2006
Posts: 544

intrepidus6 wrote:
When does a mass of energy become alive? Are psi-pets living things with feelings? If so, does this mean a code of ethics should be developed to protect them from abuse? Just some quistions that came to my mind.

Erm..Im pretty sure they're not quite living. But hey I dont know!
Lmao I like the code of ethics idea =/
But I get the feeling no "Psi pet rescue team" would be knocking at your door for destroying your creature.

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Posted on Thu May 18, 2006 12:00 pm

### Apollo

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1589

no. Is a computer alive? It does things, has programs that may have emotions, and performs tasks. No. There are no cells, there is no resperation, there is no circulatory system. Most importantly, there is no nervious system. So no, psi pets are not alive.

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Posted on Thu May 18, 2006 12:08 pm

### psi_manipulator_3000

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 1274

This is an interesting subject. I have read of psipets turning on their owners, so there is a definetly a bit of free will present, but living? Maybe. The technical definition for living is (I think) respiratory system, nervous system (not sure about that one) and the means of reproducing and surviving on its own.
So, technically if you programmed a psipet to reproduce itself and make its own choices etc, it could be classed as a living thing. But when the owner dies, supposedly, so does the construct. If it doesn't, then it truly is independent and itself;a seperate living thing. Well, that makes sense to me anyway.

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Posted on Thu May 18, 2006 12:15 pm

### Apollo

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1589

psi_manipulator_3000 wrote:

This is an interesting subject. I have read of psipets turning on their owners, so there is a definetly a bit of free will present, but living? Maybe. The technical definition for living is (I think) respiratory system, nervous system (not sure about that one) and the means of reproducing and surviving on its own.
So, technically if you programmed a psipet to reproduce itself and make its own choices etc, it could be classed as a living thing. But when the owner dies, supposedly, so does the construct. If it doesn't, then it truly is independent and itself;a seperate living thing. Well, that makes sense to me anyway.

.....
Psipets turning on their owners? What does it do? go left when it is supposed to go right? That is a bunch of.....rubbish. It is energy! Is the energy radiating from the sun alive? NO.

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Posted on Thu May 18, 2006 12:51 pm

### Vladimir

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 666

Constructs programmed to learn, or programmed with intelligence have free will. That implies they are able to turn on their owners.
I would personally treat them as alive. Intelligence is intelligence.

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Posted on Thu May 18, 2006 12:55 pm

### psi_manipulator_3000

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 1274

Vladimir wrote:
Constructs programmed to learn, or programmed with intelligence have free will. That implies they are able to turn on their owners. I would personally treat them as alive. Intelligence is intelligence.

niah!

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Posted on Thu May 18, 2006 1:38 pm

### Archamond

Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 89

Interesting subject indeed
If someone is realy advanced and put lot of time in this and make inteligent and permanent psi pet that is independant from him(creator can die, pet remains, if it is posible), it will be alive, in my opinion
Same thing with advanced computer AI, but that level of inteligence have not yet been made
And about energy, there is theory that matery is just trapped energy, so what makes us alive if we are made of energy?
Sorry on bad english, hope you get my point

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Posted on Thu May 18, 2006 1:57 pm

### psi_manipulator_3000

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 1274

Archamond wrote:
Same thing with advanced computer AI, but that level of inteligence have not yet been made

Actually, it has. There is a computer that you can talk to and it will talk back.

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Posted on Thu May 18, 2006 2:05 pm

### UltimateBlob

Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 172

But it doesn't have free-will, It won't abuse you or refuse to talk to you - it's not programmed to.

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Posted on Thu May 18, 2006 9:48 pm

### meliak

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 19

I don't think it's life that would present the moral dilemma, but awareness. After all, we squish ants readily enough without feeling guilt. But most of us would think twice before torturing a dog or dolphin or primate. Those beings have a higher awareness as to what is going on.
I'd say a psipet capable of understanding what death and pain is on an emotional level, capable of remembering an instance of pain or death, and then suffering an emotional reaction (rather than a logical string) would entail a set of morals.
A psipet who reacts to stimulus like a plant or insect on the other hand isn't really entitled to much more thought than we'd give the actual animal.

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Posted on Fri May 19, 2006 4:13 am

### SheepKing

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 728

Maybe it is not really the awareness animals have that makes us feel more sympathetic, I think its how well humans can CONNECT with them. We dont really connect to insects or things like that, so we feel more willing to destroy it. (Well most of us)
I dont think id have a problem with destroying a Psi construct with AI.

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Posted on Fri May 19, 2006 10:17 am

### Aero_Maniac

Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 26

Well, in year 6 we were taught the things that makes something alive are:
Movement - It can move of its own acord
Respiration - It uses oxygen and glucose to produce its own energy
Sensitivity - It can react to stimuli
Growth - It will grow in size over time
Reproduction - It can make other life-forms by sexual or asexual means
Excretion - It removes waste products from its body
Nutrition - It takes in 'food'
Most of those are simple to program into a psi-pet, the most obvious one that isn't is respiration. If you can program a construct to actually produce energy, water and carbon dioxide from oxygen and glucose, you are extremely talented. Though this 'code' being applicable to energetic life-forms is debatable. They aren't carbon based, which is the only type of life science recognises at the moment. Meaning that we have no real scientific evidence or research on them. Life doesn't need a nervous system either, look at amoebas and viruses.

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Posted on Fri May 19, 2006 1:19 pm

### Archamond

Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 89

Thise things are true, but maybe we need to re-define life
Those things makes something biologicaly alive, but what about artifical life, that we are trying to make in last decades
For psi_manipulator_3000, there are computer you can talk with, but there are not ones with free will yet
But I think there will be in future, and I think that droids will be parts of comunities, like in Star Wars, and will be considered as some sort of life, not bilogical, but life

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Posted on Fri May 19, 2006 4:33 pm

### d_488

Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 39

I think this is a wonderfull question and one I have.I think the answer depends on who you ask. Some say that a construct is just a little piece of your mind set to do what you programed the construct for and some think it is a seprate thing that you created. It's like how some people think dream charecters are real life in a diferent relm and some say they are either symbolic or somthing thrown in there so the dream makes sence.( I find wierd information when talking to my friends and when I read random things on the enternet.)

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