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Yet another
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Posted on Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:53 pm

### Kief

Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 120

"Ok, so actually back up your claim, instead of just saying it.
This argument is regarded useless and biased until further evidence can be brought up"
I have already said what is wrong. You don't want to accept it, that's fine, but you will never make it as a scientist.
Many videos are nothing but movement of a pinwheel and as shown in another thread, pinwheel movement is not the result of anything psionic
(this is not standard pinwheel movement but can be done by other trickery along the same lines as a pinwheel).
"And, yes people waste 10 years of their life on something that's been proven to be real, and put videos up on the internet."
Psionics is not proven, despite whatever sort of junk science you want to believe.
Yes, people waste their whole lives on fruitless dreams and aspirations. They do it with religion, they do it in medicine and science searching for cures, and they do it with the paranormal too.
"Maybe you should take a look outside of your close-minded room, and realize that not everything you believe is right."
Maybe you should get your head out of your ass and stop assuming things and saying things about me that are simply not true, such as believing things are right and wrong.
"And...gravity moves sideways?"
Gravity is always exerting a force of 9.8m/s on every object on the earth, trying to pull the object towards the earth's core. Even when something is moving sideways.
"You realize that gravity exists, and that it's easier to do a longjump than a height jump, and that the difference is significant?"
This has nothing to do with psionics or TK. Also, there is a large difference from doing a running jump and standing in position and trying to jump. The difference in both is caused by biology, that our muscles have evolved for sprinting and running and not distance jumping.
Your fallacious arguments are hilarious. You are a constant source of amusement before I tear away from this nonsense and watch South Park.
"Yes, and that the difference between gravity sideways and upwards is HIGHLY different."
Not really, gravity is still affecting you in both instances. In only APPEARS that there is a difference because humans have more springing and jumping power when they are directing that energy and weight in a foreward momentum as opposed to upward momentum.
And, I did a test, and there is not much difference anyway between the two. I can spring foreward perhaps 2 feet more than I can jump high. Not much of a difference.
"Quite nice? ROFL. You've been a fucking jackass.
If I didn't want to be nice, I'd say you utterly suck in both quality and quantity, which is something I can fake in under 2 minutes. Which is true. I could create apparent personality effects with little effort. If I wanted to, I could go crazy on the computer and act like a total jackass."
LOL awwwwwwwwww someone's steamed cause all their magic powers went to shit
"He didn't want a biased, highly unresearched opinion, he wanted a real one. You gave him the first, not the latter. If you do want a scientific opinion, Chris, I suggest you look toward the labratories."
LoL, if you say so junior, except I am in college and am in my last semester, and upon completion of my last courses will have a degree in biology, which pretty much makes me a trained and credible scientist in all respects, with a credible degree from an accredited university.
My opinion was neither biased, unresearched, or unscientific.
No labratory is going to give a crap about the claims of some snotty 15 year olds who say they can move paper around with their mind, sorry kiddo.
"You're not the 'scientific decider of the world', Kief. You aren't this bullshit 'honest scientific opinion', because in no way have you presented any facts that you are RELIABLE."
If you say so LoL
I am not the "scientific decider of the world" (whatever that is supposed to mean), but I AM the closest thing to a scientist any of you have ever encountered, and could be a valuable link to the bewteen you all and the scientific community. But if you want to destroy your credibility and all hope of scientists and the public accepting your claims of the paranormal then so be it, because scientists don't give a shit when you spew nonsense back at them when your claims are debunked.
"And one last thing? Learn to use the fucking quote option. It's not hard."
Well now that you asked nicely I'll be sure to do that for you

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Posted on Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:03 pm

### Kief

Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 120

"This is not entirely(sp) true IIRC. When sliding something, you arent going directly against the force of gravity(which if I remember my physics well enough is 10 m/s on earth)."
As far as I know you absolutely are. Just because you start moving foreward does not mean that somehow gravity is not affecting you in a downward fashion anymore, or any less than normal.
Gravity's pull is always there and always a factor affecting you. When sliding, the point is that there is not just gravity, but the friction caused by the surface the object is sliding on.
"In order to levitate an object, you would have to constantly resist the pull of Earths gravity, whereas with pushing or pulling something, you only have to give enough energy for a short sporadic burst. But again, this is just IIRC, and I would like someone to verify this if possible."
You could give the object the same kind of burst to push it upward and let it fall down. You already have to constantly resist the pull of earth's gravity downward, even if you are just sliding it, as this force is always pulling downward and is what keeps the object stationary in the first place.
"I respect the right to your opinion Kief, but I request you dont try and force it on others, which is what you are doing by the looks of it."
Merely coming up with alternate explanations and being skeptical of videos that can be easily faked is not forcing any opinion on anyone.
Rather, you all are trying to force your opinion on me, saying psionics is real no matter what, these videos are real, what you say doesn't count because I just know it's real, and yadda yadda yadda. Your trying to force upon me that all this stuff is real, and that I NEED to believe you (not you personally ). HA!

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Posted on Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:06 pm

### Arc88

Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 9

Quote:
LOL awwwwwwwwww someone's steamed cause all their magic powers went to shit

seriously? you know, alchemists were called magical in the old times. But hey look! They spawned chemistry.
Oh and you almost a biologist eh? *claps* You must be so credible, so much to give us reliable information thats been proven by lets just say, wiser men, that these things we do are fake. Something that would make us go away into our little dens and commit suicide because were all oviously just some group of teenagers with nothing else to do. One must evolve in both mind and body, dont use age as a scapegoat to your authority and validness.
Your almost a scientist, and you should know science is constantly evolving.

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Posted on Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:14 pm

### mattz1010

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 885

Kief wrote:

"Ok, so actually back up your claim, instead of just saying it.
This argument is regarded useless and biased until further evidence can be brought up"
I have already said what is wrong. You don't want to accept it, that's fine, but you will never make it as a scientist.

Well, I certainly wouldn't want to be a biased one like you.
I do have to give credit where credit is due, though - you've turned me away from biased science. I think I'll go back to the real ones, thanks.

Quote:

Many videos are nothing but movement of a pinwheel and as shown in another thread, pinwheel movement is not the result of anything psionic
(this is not standard pinwheel movement but can be done by other trickery along the same lines as a pinwheel).

*sigh*, deluded individual.
Did you even see the picture of a real psiwheel? It's been tested against any possible forms of movement, except psi. It's not exactly what you can make at home.
If you can design a better easy-to-make psiwheel, go right ahead.
You, so far, have ONE example of disproving a psiwheel...and guess what? That could be camera trickery too. The camera didn't move once in the video.

Quote:

"And, yes people waste 10 years of their life on something that's been proven to be real, and put videos up on the internet."
Psionics is not proven, despite whatever sort of junk science you want to believe.
Yes, people waste their whole lives on fruitless dreams and aspirations. They do it with religion, they do it in medicine and science searching for cures, and they do it with the paranormal too.

Yeah, and the ones that don't sellout to the media? Where do they get the money from? You must realize that you need money in order to buy food to survive, right?

Quote:

"Maybe you should take a look outside of your close-minded room, and realize that not everything you believe is right."
Maybe you should get your head out of your ass and stop assuming things and saying things about me that are simply not true, such as believing things are right and wrong.

Maybe you should get your head out of your ass, and stop assuming things and saying things about me that are simply not true, such as believing things are right and wrong.

Quote:
"And...gravity moves sideways?" Gravity is always exerting a force of 9.8m/s on every object on the earth, trying to pull the object towards the earth's core. Even when something is moving sideways.

Yeah. And the effect is not the same.

Quote:

"You realize that gravity exists, and that it's easier to do a longjump than a height jump, and that the difference is significant?"
This has nothing to do with psionics or TK. Also, there is a large difference from doing a running jump and standing in position and trying to jump. The difference in both is caused by biology, that our muscles have evolved for sprinting and running and not distance jumping.

This, has alot to do with psionics and/or TK. Also, there is not much difference between standing still and doing a jump, than standing in position and trying to jump. The difference in both is caused by your one-sided argument, not actually acknowledging the other sides.

Quote:
Your fallacious arguments are hilarious. You are a constant source of amusement before I tear away from this nonsense and watch South Park.

Your conceited arguments are quite hilarious, I must say. You are a constant source of amusement before I tear away from this nonsence and play some games.

Quote:

"Yes, and that the difference between gravity sideways and upwards is HIGHLY different."
Not really, gravity is still affecting you in both instances. In only APPEARS that there is a difference because humans have more springing and jumping power when they are directing that energy and weight in a foreward momentum as opposed to upward momentum.
And, I did a test, and there is not much difference anyway between the two. I can spring foreward perhaps 2 feet more than I can jump high. Not much of a difference.

-_-
and...did you even bother to state how far/high you jumped in both? No.
So, you haven't provided enough evidence to actually back up your claim, again,
This argument: Fail.

Quote:

"Quite nice? ROFL. You've been a fucking jackass.
If I didn't want to be nice, I'd say you utterly suck in both quality and quantity, which is something I can fake in under 2 minutes. Which is true. I could create apparent personality effects with little effort. If I wanted to, I could go crazy on the computer and act like a total jackass."
LOL awwwwwwwwww someone's steamed cause all their magic powers went to shit

LOL awwwwwwwwww someone's using sarcastic condescendence because they've been verbally beaten to shit

Quote:

"He didn't want a biased, highly unresearched opinion, he wanted a real one. You gave him the first, not the latter. If you do want a scientific opinion, Chris, I suggest you look toward the labratories."
LoL, if you say so junior, except I am in college and am in my last semester, and upon completion of my last courses will have a degree in biology, which pretty much makes me a trained and credible scientist in all respects, with a credible degree from an accredited university.
My opinion was neither biased, unresearched, or unscientific.
No labratory is going to give a crap about the claims of some snotty 15 year olds who say they can move paper around with their mind, sorry kiddo.

Being somewhere proves jack shit. You didn't say how well you're doing in the class, you didn't provide any information whatsoever proving that you're actually right, you only provided "sway the jury" evidence, to prove your elitist attitude towards people you believe are lower than yourself.
It's called an opinion because it's not true or false. It's a fact if it's true, and it's a lie if it's false.
Please get that through your head, and try to prove things again. Simply saying you're somewhere doesn't mean anything unless you back it up.

Quote:

"You're not the 'scientific decider of the world', Kief. You aren't this bullshit 'honest scientific opinion', because in no way have you presented any facts that you are RELIABLE."
If you say so LoL
I am not the "scientific decider of the world" (whatever that is supposed to mean), but I AM the closest thing to a scientist any of you have ever encountered, and could be a valuable link to the bewteen you all and the scientific community. But if you want to destroy your credibility and all hope of scientists and the public accepting your claims of the paranormal then so be it, because scientists don't give a shit when you spew nonsense back at them when your claims are debunked.

Closest thing to a scientist? And have you actually done research on that claim?
-_-

Quote:
"And one last thing? Learn to use the fucking quote option. It's not hard." Well now that you asked nicely I'll be sure to do that for you

Well, It's amazing. You still haven't created YOUR video. Are you really going to continue on with your bullshit, or are you actually going to back it up, rather than pointlessly argue?
Now, I'd suggest everybody take a lesson from this stubborn, raging individual. He doesn't back up his claims, he doesn't present any new evidence, he isn't open to ideas, he can't even make respectful posts, he can't accept that he's wrong either.
Pack up your bullshit tent, and go, Kief. I've had enough bullshit from you to last me a whole year.
PROVE THAT YOU'VE DEBUNKED US, rather than ONE single VIDEO that has obviously been faked to say that psionics is fake.
Oh wait, am I making the generalizational claims again? oops, that must be the Kief side of me talking again.

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Posted on Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:21 pm

### Kief

Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 120

"Then stop freakin complaining!"
I am not complaining, I am pointing out what I see, what no one else is saying, and other obvious abnormalities.
"I stand by my decision that you have no experience at all in the psionic community. You have also learned nothing."
I stand by my conviction that YOU have no experience or credibility in the "psychic community", not that such a community has much credibility to begin with (or even exists outside of a few small groups of people, none of which you are a legitamate part of).
There doesn't seem to be anything to learn from when you are not doing something really real with your mind.
"Its because you are stupid and making a fool of yourself."
Seems you are just angry that you cannot get away with duping other people on the internet.
If alternate non-psionic explanations anger and upset you, well, tough.
"Nice? You think you are nice?"
I could be worse
You want me to get worse ??
"I have said it 3 times now but i guess you missed it. Here it is again in big blue letters. If you have trouble finding the blue letters, just ask and i will happily shove them up your ass."
Your repetition and anger does not help you, your credibility, or the video's credibility.
You act exactly as I would expect you to act when shown you are wrong and problems pointed out to you - like a whiny child.
"ALL VIDEOS CAN BE FAKED!!!!!"
That's right, and I am pointing out how yours are faked.
If you don't like it, make a video showing a working lightbulb in a lamp, unscrew it, put it on a table, and make it light up and then explode. Then I'll point out to you all the problems I see with that video
The point in making you do such a thing is that it would probably be easier for you to do that with your mind than with magician's or special effects tricks.

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Posted on Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:42 pm

### Fearisalie

Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 86

Quote:
As far as I know you absolutely are. Just because you start moving foreward does not mean that somehow gravity is not affecting you in a downward fashion anymore, or any less than normal.

I never said that it wasnt effecting you, im just saying that, it is in fact easier to slide something than to levitate it, or even jump it. When levitating or jumping something, you are going directly against the force of gravity, which as stated before, means you would have to endure the whole 9.8 m/s of gravity to move it. When sliding, you are moving perpendicular, or close to it, to the force of gravity. I dont remeber the exact equation, but even when combined with friction, wind resistance, ect; its still less effort than going directly against gravity. If you wish to test this theory, first, try sliding around for a while, then, try jumping up and down for a while. And now I ask you, say you slid a bit for 30 seconds, rested up, and then jumped a bit for 30 seconds. I can almost guarentee that you found it harder to jump repeatedly then to slide along the floor. In fact its MUCH harder if I do say so myself. And while you may not think this applies to TK, Im pretty sure anyone whoes done anything in TK can say that it does.

Quote:
Merely coming up with alternate explanations and being skeptical of videos that can be easily faked is not forcing any opinion on anyone. Rather, you all are trying to force your opinion on me, saying psionics is real no matter what, these videos are real, what you say doesn't count because I just know it's real, and yadda yadda yadda. Your trying to force upon me that all this stuff is real, and that I NEED to believe you (not you personally Wink). HA!

I wont argue with your right to believe it or not, because it doesnt effect me in any way. Im just correcting you on areas you are most likely(we cant just go assuming all modern physics laws are right ) wrong.
EDIT:

Quote:
That's right, and I am pointing out how yours are faked.

Actually, you pointed out why you think they are fake. Seeing as neither of us were there, we cant prove or disprove it. We can make all the insinuations in the world, but in all actuality, there is no way to "prove" this stuff to a skeptic. And in this case, there is no way you can disprove his video.

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Posted on Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:45 pm

### mattz1010

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 885

Kief wrote:

"I stand by my decision that you have no experience at all in the psionic community. You have also learned nothing."
I stand by my conviction that YOU have no experience or credibility in the "psychic community", not that such a community has much credibility to begin with (or even exists outside of a few small groups of people, none of which you are a legitamate part of).
There doesn't seem to be anything to learn from when you are not doing something really real with your mind.

*sigh*. You are SO predictable. Saying the same arguments over and over.
Are you even reading what you post? You just told somebody who's been a part of the community for a while, a respected member, that they're not experienced, or have any credibility within the community.
Please tell me you didn't just say that. Because that's honestly the dumbest, most hypocrtical argument I've heard to-date.

Quote:
"Its because you are stupid and making a fool of yourself." Seems you are just angry that you cannot get away with duping other people on the internet. If alternate non-psionic explanations anger and upset you, well, tough.

Seems you can't actually make real arguments. Make the video you so threatened. I don't think you can. You're just fucking around. Make the video.
Seems you are just angry that you cannot get away with bullshitting other people on the internet.

Quote:
"Nice? You think you are nice?" I could be worse You want me to get worse ??

*sigh*. Again, very predictable. Arguing the most pointless parts of an argument.
I shake my head in disbelief at your conceitedness.

Quote:

"I have said it 3 times now but i guess you missed it. Here it is again in big blue letters. If you have trouble finding the blue letters, just ask and i will happily shove them up your ass."
Your repetition and anger does not help you, your credibility, or the video's credibility.
You act exactly as I would expect you to act when shown you are wrong and problems pointed out to you - like a whiny child.

Your repetition and anger does not help you, your credibility, or the video's credibility.
You act exactly as I would expect you to act when shown you are wrong and problems pointed out to you - like a whiny child.
The same can be said about you, in fact, it just was.
And it's completely true.
You're full of shit, and anybody can see that.

Quote:

"ALL VIDEOS CAN BE FAKED!!!!!"
That's right, and I am pointing out how yours are faked.
If you don't like it, make a video showing a working lightbulb in a lamp, unscrew it, put it on a table, and make it light up and then explode. Then I'll point out to you all the problems I see with that video
The point in making you do such a thing is that it would probably be easier for you to do that with your mind than with magician's or special effects tricks.

...seriously, now you're just being a smartass.
Do you even know how much energy it would take to explode a lightbulb?
Go jump in the GEOS box, kid.

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Posted on Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:52 pm

### Apollo

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1589

Kief wrote:

"ALL VIDEOS CAN BE FAKED!!!!!"
That's right, and I am pointing out how yours are faked.
If you don't like it, make a video showing a working lightbulb in a lamp, unscrew it, put it on a table, and make it light up and then explode. Then I'll point out to you all the problems I see with that video
The point in making you do such a thing is that it would probably be easier for you to do that with your mind than with magician's or special effects tricks.

Just one thing i want from you. Actually prove my videos false. Instead of saying "You could have blown on it" or "You could have used a string", actually show me. You have no hard evidence. ["Mr. Smith could have killed Ms. Jane" says someone in court.] Is that going to slide at all? no. The prosecutor needs cold, hard evidence. So.....get me that evidence...... Lets see if you find any.

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Posted on Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:59 pm

### Apollo

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1589

Rahmid wrote:

Can you upload it to google?? I cant see it on that site....crappy Mac.....
If it isn't too much trouble, IDK I've havent used Google before.
I'm gonna probably upload one sometime soon, psi wheel action. Nothign special but i get it going so fast it falls off. tends to do that...
Rahmid

It is now up on Google Videos:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1311091754591531163

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Posted on Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:09 pm

### mattz1010

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 885

You know he's not going to make the video. That would require much more effort than just claiming he could make it.

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Posted on Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:15 pm

### Apollo

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1589

Please move all arguements related to "Is PK real" to the following thread:
http://www.psipog.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2105

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Posted on Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:18 pm

### The_Musician

Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 323

is it just me, or is anyone else waiting for this guy to respond to Jack's video? that guy was crazy.

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Posted on Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:43 pm

### Arc88

Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 9

I say we just ignore this keif guy until he goes away, its ovious he doesnt want to learn anything.

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Posted on Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:05 pm

### Kief

Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 120

Yay everyone wants to jump on me so I'll do this all in one post for brevity, the new south park is almost on...
"Your subconscious needs to get used to different types of telekinetic movement. So when you are switching from sliding to levitating chances are you won't be getting any results soon, just like switching from spining a pin wheel to rolling a round pencil. That is why many people are still stuck on the pin wheel."
This makes no sense.
As a child I would move and levitate objects without having any training or experience, or even knowing what was happening. I just had to look at it and be in the right mood, and it would move, or move and float.
Spinning a pin wheel has been shown to just be normal air flow around the object as is shown in another topic. People are "stuck on" the pinwheel because it is NOT a psionic effect, it is just a trick, and that's why one cannot "move beyond" a pinwheel - you just don't have the ability.
"When you levitate something you need to constantly defy gravity, meaning you would have to use force on the selected item constantly."
So? When you are moving any object you are constantly defying gravity. Gravity doesn't just stop happening just because it is on a surface or being slid along a surface.
"You see from the video that the paper is moved from time to time by an "energy outburst","
Um..... Well, for sake of your argument, I won't disclaim this.
"so let's say he could direct that outburst to move the object upward so it would "jump" up and fall down (but he can't because it is a different type of movement [1.]) ,"
It's all movement, just in a different vector. The forces are all the same.
Remember, you don't have to just float an object up. An object can be moved and floated down off a base.
For example, as a child, a pile of napkins slid 2 feet off a counter and from the edge of the counter top and floated 4 feet to the ground in a y=logX curve, landing about 2 feet away from the base of the counter. I can try and come up with numerous explanations for this, such as wind, and other momentum, but this is something where the entire pile stays in place, moving and landing as though it was not touched. IF you think I am telling the truth, or am simply not mistaken about the event (which was witnessed by siblings). I have performed tests and napkins simply will not behave in such a manner, even when stressed with wind or other forces.
Float a pile of napkins off a surface to the floor... That would be impressive and difficult to fake
At least, I cannot think of any conventional ways to fake it at the moment.
"i bet you would say it was done with a string just like this one, so what's the point?"
Yea I could say that.
Try to impress me, cause I've seen better. Criss Angel swallowed a quarter then moved a previously implanted quarter down his arm and cut it out.
Be creative. If you can really do something then it can't hurt.
"Your almost a scientist, and you should know science is constantly evolving."
It sure is, and I am trying to legitimately prove this stuff, that's why I went into science. Silly magic tricks do nothing to prove our cause and only detract from our credibility.
------------------
"Well, I certainly wouldn't want to be a biased one like you.
I do have to give credit where credit is due, though - you've turned me away from biased science. I think I'll go back to the real ones, thanks."
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
"Did you even see the picture of a real psiwheel? It's been tested against any possible forms of movement, except psi. It's not exactly what you can make at home."
Is this like the difference between a true christian LoL?
Real pinwheel? They are all real, and all very easy to move with air.
"If you can design a better easy-to-make psiwheel, go right ahead."
I'd say it shouldn't be used at all.
"You, so far, have ONE example of disproving a psiwheel...and guess what? That could be camera trickery too. The camera didn't move once in the video."
So the person who made that video involved himself in camera trickery to move it without using a mechanism that involved the warming of air currents (which, causes air to spin BTW, and which is why the wheel spins)? Yea Ok
I had already suspected air currents were involved with the movement of pinwheels in experiments I have conducted myself in trying to move it. This is further confirmation for myself and independent confirmation for anyone else.
"Yeah, and the ones that don't sellout to the media? Where do they get the money from? You must realize that you need money in order to buy food to survive, right?"
What are you talking about? Scientists will get research money from grants and donations (and teaching, consulting, etc.). It is the same with parapsychologists (and the scientists who run the journal of parapsychology). They make their money from selling parapsychology journals and by donations. I doubt they get many grants, though I am sure whatever universities such scientists are associated with can get grants through them.
Selling out to the media? WTF have you smoked today?
"Maybe you should get your head out of your ass, and stop assuming things and saying things about me that are simply not true, such as believing things are right and wrong."
When I said this it made sense. When you said this... It just... Wow... Words cannot express the sheer volume of ridiculousness.... Ah kids.
Did you notice the big sign at the top of the posting block you type in? It says BE INTELLIGENT!
"Yeah. And the effect is not the same."
Sure it is, gravity is always pulling downward.
"This, has alot to do with psionics and/or TK."
No it does not, it is an argument from analogy, a fallacious form of argumentation.
"Also, there is not much difference between standing still and doing a jump, than standing in position and trying to jump. The difference in both is caused by your one-sided argument, not actually acknowledging the other sides."
Sure kid, whatever you say
Standing still, and standing in position, are the same thing. Standing still in a given position is much different from trying to do a running jump. Standing still in a given position, and jumping forward, or backward, as opposed to straight up, uses different muscles and muscular movements, and there are other physical factors involved such as moving your weight forward and momentum, as well as cheating to increase distance, that I just don't care to look up and argue over (since your argument is entirely fallacious to begin with).
"Your conceited arguments are quite hilarious, I must say. You are a constant source of amusement before I tear away from this nonsence and play some games."
Do yourself a favor and just play video games
"and...did you even bother to state how far/high you jumped in both? No.
So, you haven't provided enough evidence to actually back up your claim, again,"
Not that it matters, but without cheating to try and increase height or distance, I can jump up roughly 3 feet high standing and 5 feet long standing.
"LOL awwwwwwwwww someone's using sarcastic condescendence because they've been verbally beaten to shit"
Your childish attacks and nonsensical crap qualify as verbally beating someone to shit? Are you kidding or just that stupid?
Whatever lets you sleep comfortably at night kiddo
"Being somewhere proves jack shit. You didn't say how well you're doing in the class, you didn't provide any information whatsoever proving that you're actually right, you only provided "sway the jury" evidence, to prove your elitist attitude towards people you believe are lower than yourself."
I don't really care what you think, since at the end of May I will have a piece of paper that says my name on it that you STILL cannot move with TK.
"It's called an opinion because it's not true or false. It's a fact if it's true, and it's a lie if it's false.
Please get that through your head, and try to prove things again. Simply saying you're somewhere doesn't mean anything unless you back it up."
Watch me care what you think.
Why don't you prove telekinetic claims and then I'll prove I am in college
All I see are haphazard denials to phenomena that has been debunked.
Christians and other religious people do the same thing when I debunk their paranormal claims, especially those of the power of prayer, tongues, and other such nonsense.
"Closest thing to a scientist? And have you actually done research on that claim?"
Personal research into the paranormal? Absolutely. Non-paranormal biology research for professors? Absolutely.
"Well, It's amazing. You still haven't created YOUR video. Are you really going to continue on with your bullshit, or are you actually going to back it up, rather than pointlessly argue?"
You want me to create some fake videos for you? LoL I'll get right on that for you
"Now, I'd suggest everybody take a lesson from this stubborn, raging individual."
Stubborn and raging?
Seems a little bit of Freudian projection is going on
"He doesn't back up his claims, he doesn't present any new evidence, he isn't open to ideas, he can't even make respectful posts, he can't accept that he's wrong either."
Wow, you have managed to sum up all your postings and everything you have said to me, AND THEN lie about everything and say I am doing what YOU are in fact doing to me. Marvelous!
"Pack up your bullshit tent, and go, Kief. I've had enough bullshit from you to last me a whole year."
You first junior
"PROVE THAT YOU'VE DEBUNKED US, rather than ONE single VIDEO that has obviously been faked to say that psionics is fake."
That video clearly shows moving a pinwheel is not a psionic effect. I have suggested other mechanisms and forms of trickery and illusion that can produce similar effects.
You are delusional. Especially if you think you are moving a pinwheel with psi.
If you think it's real why don't you go grab that million from James Randi.
The video showing spinning pinwheels is a natural effect and not a paranormal one is faked? You are a fucking lunatic LoL. Lay off the meth!
"Oh wait, am I making the generalizational claims again? oops, that must be the Kief side of me talking again."
You clearly act your age
That's why I'm going easy on you.
---------------------
"I never said that it wasnt effecting you, im just saying that, it is in fact easier to slide something than to levitate it, or even jump it. When levitating or jumping something, you are going directly against the force of gravity, which as stated before, means you would have to endure the whole 9.8 m/s of gravity to move it. When sliding, you are moving perpendicular, or close to it, to the force of gravity."
As far as I am aware, no matter what the force of gravity is always pulling (really accelerating) you downward, regardless as to whether the object is moving perpendicular to a surface, or at an angle downward or upward. You always have to deal with the force pulling you down. Sliding an object means you also have to overcome the force or friction caused by the surface the object is sliding on. It does not make logical sense for an object to be easier to be slid than levitated when the actual forces are accounted for.
"I dont remeber the exact equation, but even when combined with friction, wind resistance, ect; its still less effort than going directly against gravity."
I would like actual information for this. If I care enough I'll look up some physics stuff myself. I don't have any equipment that would allow me to experiment with this.
"If you wish to test this theory, first, try sliding around for a while, then, try jumping up and down for a while. And now I ask you, say you slid a bit for 30 seconds, rested up, and then jumped a bit for 30 seconds. I can almost guarentee that you found it harder to jump repeatedly then to slide along the floor."
This is not a valid experiment. Slide how? On my ass, stomach, back? Jumped in place, or jumped around in given vectors?
This kind of experiment requires... Crap I just forgot what they are called. They are like little pulleys that measure energy in joules. Devising an experiment with one of those is a start.
"In fact its MUCH easier if I do say so myself. And while you may not think this applies to TK, Im pretty sure anyone whoes done anything in TK can say that it does."
It does not make sense why. Even along frictionless surfaces gravity is still a factor. I'd like to see further explanation into this. Maybe I'll do it if poker and chocolate sandwiches don't pull me in.
"I wont argue with your right to believe it or not, because it doesnt effect me in any way. Im just correcting you on areas you are most likely(we cant just go assuming all modern physics laws are right ) wrong."
Oh I have a personal saying "Physics is wrong.", sort of an inside joke. Problem is, it's mostly right, and we simply cannot go against it. You can try, but it makes one look realllllllly silly.
"Actually, you pointed out why you think they are fake."
I pointed out mechanisms at work that could explain what is observed, without resorting to psionics as an explanation.
"Seeing as neither of us were there, we cant prove or disprove it."
I really hate that line of reasoning. Of course it can be proved or disproved, I could find a string in the video, or other anomalies, or find no anomalies at all. But, I will agree with it to a point, as we were not there to witness the event, which would be a different story.
Which is all the more reason to be skeptical, and require further demonstration.
That's like when I have some christians telling me that no one can prove or disprove god, satan, etc. Sure you can. If you think you can't your just not trying hard enough.
"We can make all the insinuations in the world, but in all actuality, there is no way to "prove" this stuff to a skeptic."
Sure there is, but typically it involves a live, controlled demonstration.
"And in this case, there is no way you can disprove his video."
I can propose mechanisms that will show trickery/naturalistic mechanisms were involved and test them myself to see if I get the same results (and indeed I can produce similar effects that look real, especially under the lens of a camera).
-----------------
"*sigh*. You are SO predictable. Saying the same arguments over and over."
Whatever kiddo.
"You just told somebody who's been a part of the community for a while,"
A community that consists of a website and message boards. That is not a legitimate academic community, nor a scientific one.
A community of people who believe in something or in the powers of a particular person and the dogmas they preach, who have a centralized belief structure based on faith, is nothing but a religious cult.
"Please tell me you didn't just say that. Because that's honestly the dumbest, most hypocrtical argument I've heard to-date."
LoL. You obviously do not know what the word "hypocritical" means or what a "hypocrite" is.
Reading what you write only makes one dumber having read it. That said, I am losing precious brain matter responding to your childish remarks.
Luckily, our brains bio-regenerate.
"Seems you can't actually make real arguments."
You are a moron. You do not even know what an argument is. You are only 15 though, so I'll forgive your immaturity and stupidity.
"Make the video you so threatened. I don't think you can. You're just fucking around. Make the video."
In time, when my roommate gets Maya up, we are going to make some special effects videos for both our portfolios and to see what we can do for an independent movie, but those will involve high intensity graphics.
Why should I make more videos of fake effects like spinning pinwheels and moving paper around by air and strings when plenty of people have already made and posted such videos?
Especially when you will dismiss any evidence I present just like you are trying to dismiss the other video-graphic evidence, as all lunatic believers do when they are entirely proven wrong.
But just to spite you I made some anyway
"Seems you are just angry that you cannot get away with bullshitting other people on the internet."
Actually that seems more like your position. Your words and tone give away your anger and frustration.
I am not angry that you cannot prove your claims and contentions, and that you are posting haphazard personal attacks and fallacious arguments - I am laughing hysterically
"Again, very predictable. Arguing the most pointless parts of an argument.
I shake my head in disbelief at your conceitedness."
Sigh, you are very predictable, arguing nothing and then trying to turn it into an argument. You are really 15? Are you even in high school yet?
"Your repetition and anger does not help you, your credibility, or the video's credibility."
I am not the one all pissed and angry here junior, you are. Your words, tone, and projections give you away.
My credibility is not at stake here. Your credibility has entirely flown out the window though, and you are doing a good job at building up a reputation as an immature kid who can't think his way out of a paper hat.
"The same can be said about you, in fact, it just was."
That's a great comeback, why don't you try proving it
"And it's completely true.
You're full of shit, and anybody can see that."
Funny, you have not proved anything I have said incorrect, nor proved your own side or provided evidence that your contentions about psionics are real.
You have proved that you have a potty mouth, and your age is on par with your maturity. You have shown you have no respect for science, logic, critical thinking, or that you possess common sense. You are 15, so I can understand this. In time, hopefully you will possess these things and not be duped by everything you see and read.
"...seriously, now you're just being a smartass."
No, I'm absolutely serious.
"Do you even know how much energy it would take to explode a lightbulb?"
I don't care. If you can't do it, then you can't do it.
"Just one thing i want from you. Actually prove my videos false. Instead of saying "You could have blown on it" or "You could have used a string", actually show me. You have no hard evidence. ["Mr. Smith could have killed Ms. Jane" says someone in court.] Is that going to slide at all? no. The prosecutor needs cold, hard evidence. So.....get me that evidence...... Lets see if you find any."
The video is of so poor quality it could be anything. No amount of photo-editing software could show you were blowing on it, but the same kind of effect you pulled off could be done by merely blowing on a ball of paper. I'm not impressed. You aren't turning water into wine. What you did is not indicative of anything paranormal.
There are plenty of videos of ghosts and ufos online, but a blob in a picture or movie does not prove anything, and pictures of orbs, mists, and ectoplasm are generally just tricks.
----------------
"You know he's not going to make the video. That would require much more effort than just claiming he could make it."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Kid I got a whole post just for ya.

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Posted on Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:45 pm

### Arc88

Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 9

You know...i read your post , well...kindof got lost in nonsense about half way through. Some good points though, I have to admit these things are very hard to prove. You would have to actually meet someone who could do TK and show you in person (Not saying that you wouldnt go off on some scientifiic explanasion on how the wind current was at .2 mph and the air pressure in the room was too high). Now...about your subconscience having to get used to it...I think its not getting used to it so much as accepting it. You grow up and you program your conscience to believe that TK is false in essence. Then you try it, but your subconscience still believes its fake. So its a matter of telling yourself it works. Now...is it starting to make sense? I hope so...

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