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a powerful technique involving chi, or 'psi'
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Posted on Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:58 pm

### Shadow_of_Iga

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 35

Kief, forgive me, but i must enlighten you to some things. For starters, there is a difference between chi, psi, and magick. Take some notes, cause this is the basis for everything: chi is the force inside of us that sustains life, basically. Now, chi can be controlled, moved about through one's body, and even brought outside the body. Psi, is basically chi but with more emphasis, more 'intention' put into it by one's mind. When someone makes a psiball, they want it to be a ball comprised of pshychic energies, so low and behold thats what they get. When someone makes a chi ball, they get a ball of energy, just basic life energy, but chi is important cause it is the basis for psi energy, and also cryo energy and pyro energy. The mind is important in all of this because chi is moved throughout the body with the use of the mind, hence it is much easier to create a psi ball than a chi ball. Magick, well magick has tons and tons of endless uses and chants to activate it, and is often seen used by members of the wiccan RELIGION. Now, religion has nothing to do with chi, hence it has nothing to do with psi. You can be whatever religion you want to be, but your still gonna have this energy inside of you. Now, as to the 'mechanism' that gets it to work, the mechanism would be the mind. With the mind, we direct our energy flow throughout our body, in between our hands, or where ever. *A mechanism is a testable explanation as to why an observed phenomena occurs.*
Well, if you want this chi to be tested, find someone that knows what they're doing, and get them to show you. Did you read the original post that i made?, i have used my energy to knock someone down out of the air. That was proof enough for me. *A major problem I have with this is that really what you, we, are doing IS magick in every traditional sense.
* False. Magick as i've said before is way different from what we do on this site, psi.

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Posted on Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:31 am

### Kief

Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 120

"Kief, forgive me, but i must enlighten you to some things. For starters, there is a difference between chi, psi, and magick."
I don't see how one can make a distinctive difference in these things since oftentimes they all work on the same properties, deal with unknown forces and energy, involve mental will, and are entirely without any concrete evidence as to any known cause.
"Take some notes, cause this is the basis for everything: chi is the force inside of us that sustains life, basically. Now, chi can be controlled, moved about through one's body, and even brought outside the body."
Again all 3 of these things can be likened to forces of energy, psi and magick included. And you say below that psi is "basicly chi", but with more intention. Magick is exactly the same thing, using intent and force of will to affect reality.
"Psi, is basically chi but with more emphasis, more 'intention' put into it by one's mind."
So psi IS chi, and chi is psi energy, no distinction.
I don't think one really can make a distinction, though saying "psi" as opposed to "magick" or "chi" is a more scientific way of putting phenomena in perspective.
"When someone makes a psiball, they want it to be a ball comprised of pshychic energies, so low and behold thats what they get. When someone makes a chi ball, they get a ball of energy, just basic life energy,"
How can you really make a distinction in the kind of energy used (assuming these effects are based on the manipulation of unknown energy forces to begin with) when it is all energy and the effects/byproducts of this energy you are manipulating is based on your intent?
An energy ball is just that, energy, and it can have any intent you want it to have, be it warm fuzzy life feelings, or cold, hot, whatever.
Your mind makes it real. But perception does not equal reality unless you can actually make it so, which we have the ability to do (not just with psychic powers; our hands, words, and actions can make our perceptions real).
"but chi is important cause it is the basis for psi energy,"
That is a religious claim.
All I see is energy, and different explanations as to what is going on. Neither of them suffice.
"and also cryo energy and pyro energy. The mind is important in all of this because chi is moved throughout the body with the use of the mind,"
But I could simply slice out the need for chi and just call it all psi and be just as correct, and vice versa. I could also cut out chi and psi and call it magick. I could also just call it paranormal (which it is), which does not imply further reasoning as to the cause of the phenomena and the mechanisms behind it.
In science all 3 have zero explanatory power, and claims of the paranormal are not accepted as real. This doesn't mean that scientists and professors have not had paranormal experiences, and I could tell of a few stories I have of experiences professors I know have told me about.
"hence it is much easier to create a psi ball than a chi ball."
How can you make a real distinction between the two without any scientific basis for either, and the religious nature of chi?
"Magick, well magick has tons and tons of endless uses"
Again I would say this is accurate. Well, I would say magick has endless uses, and it's only limitations to affect reality are caused by limitations in the magician.
But the same can be said of all 3.
"and chants to activate it,"
Qua? Chants can be used for psi or chi as well, or not at all for either.
"and is often seen used by members of the wiccan RELIGION."
Magick, or witchcraft, could be used by pagans and persons who would identify themselves as wiccans. In my mind christian, islamic, hindu, and other forms of religious prayer are also the same as magick, psi, or chi.
Magick (or witchcraft if you perfer) has no religious connotations. It has been used by differing cultures and religions throughout all time and all cultures, including christianity, where in medieval times priests would be considered to pratice "white" magick from god and witches would pratice "black" magick from satan.
"Now, religion has nothing to do with chi, hence it has nothing to do with psi."
The idea that chi is an energetic force permeating physical bodies giving a living quality to things is nothing but dogmatic belief, and is entirely religious in its nature. The concepts of chi are rooted in chinese philosophy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi
Magic(k) is something that has been used throughout all religions and cultures, under one name or another, incorporating various aspects of itself as well such as sorcery, mental movement, and every psychic and superhuman ability one can imagine (including abilities ascribed to chi).
Psi/psionics is a new word used to try and put paranormal phenomena in scientific terms. Basically, trying to put things like magick, chi, sorcery, etc., into scientific terms and bring it to a scientific level.
"You can be whatever religion you want to be, but your still gonna have this energy inside of you."
So whether its chi energy, psionic energy, magickal energy, it is all energy, and no real mechanism can make a difference between any of them because there is nothing really known about these forces, whether they even exist. Pratictioners and so-oriented individuals can sense and do things with this energy, but then again in my experience I do not have to say that is the case, that one is working with undiscovered energies or any energies at all.
"Now, as to the 'mechanism' that gets it to work, the mechanism would be the mind."
That is not an adequate scientific explanation.
How does the mind do this? How did the ability evolve? What is the biological and genetic basis for this phenomena?
Your answer simply does not suffice as an explanation, as you can not be sure. You could think it is your mind but really the power is coming from a divinity or god or gods, or a great spirit, or a demon or devil, or fairies, or nothing at all, or none of the above, something entirely different.
"With the mind, we direct our energy flow throughout our body, in between our hands, or where ever."
But how? What is the biological basis for this phenomena, what kinds of neuronal cells are involved, what genes are involved?
If you are directing a form of energy, why isn't this energy dectable with any kind of sensor (or is it?). If you can produce strong data showing that you can generate and direct electromagnetic and/or heat energy from your body at will then that would be a significant discovery and I can think of a number of ways to generate strong data via experimentation if such a thing is possible.
"*A mechanism is a testable explanation as to why an observed phenomena occurs.* Well, if you want this chi to be tested, find someone that knows what they're doing, and get them to show you."
Easier said than done. Most people I find have much to say but can do very little (or nothing).
"Did you read the original post that i made?, i have used my energy to knock someone down out of the air. That was proof enough for me. "
It is not proof that you used an energy force, such as psi, magick, or chi, to create the effect.
What you know is that you created the effect by wanting it to happen and needing it to happen, and it happened. It very well could not have happened at all. Wanting something to happen and having it happen, even if you think you are manipulating energy forces by doing it, does not mean you actually are manipulating energy forces to create the effect, or if you are even creating the effect at all.
What you did is not proof of psionic energy or chi energy. To me it is proof that psionic/magickal, or paranormal phenoma, can occur.
"*A major problem I have with this is that really what you, we, are doing IS magick in every traditional sense.
* False. Magick as i've said before is way different from what we do on this site, psi."
I have addressed the problems in trying to make a true distinction and the philosophical and religious implications involved with all. Magick does not readily require explanation given its nature, nor does it necessarily preclude nor require the existence of deities, energies, forces, or anything at all for it to work. It just happens, and the person who can do it can just do it. Whatever their explanation as to why it works for them is of no consequence.

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Posted on Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:15 am

### Shadow_of_Iga

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 35

"So psi IS chi, and chi is psi energy, no distinction. "
No, your wrong.
"How can you really make a distinction in the kind of energy used (assuming these effects are based on the manipulation of unknown energy forces to begin with) when it is all energy and the effects/byproducts of this energy you are manipulating is based on your intent? "
Because I know what I'm doing, I've been studying this for 4 years now.
Something I said: "but chi is important cause it is the basis for psi energy"
Your response: "That is a religious claim."
...... What?
Something I said: "Now, as to the 'mechanism' that gets it to work, the mechanism would be the mind."
Your response: "That is not an adequate scientific explanation.
How does the mind do this? How did the ability evolve? What is the biological and genetic basis for this phenomena?
Your answer simply does not suffice as an explanation, as you can not be sure."
I am sure, I know exactly what I am talking about. Oh, and screw all that scientific crap. I know what i have and weild, and i know how to control it. Why are you even on this site if your going to be so skeptical of everything?

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Posted on Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:21 am

### possamai

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 48

Shadow_of_Iga wrote:
Why are you even on this site if your going to be so skeptical of everything?

There's nothing wrong with being skeptical. I think it's a good thing to doubt everything and find underying proof before believing something.
Off course you still need to keep an open mind for things..

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Posted on Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:50 am

### Kief

Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 120

"No, your wrong."
But you just went and said it was...
"Because I know what I'm doing,"
I remain unconvinced.
"I've been studying this for 4 years now."
So? Ever think that I may have more experience than you?
The questions I ask are valid, you just can't answer them because real evidence is elusive.
".... What?"
Chi is religious philosophy. If you want to link it to psi then that is a claim that delves into religion and has no basis in science (nor any evidence for).
"I am sure, I know exactly what I am talking about."
I am sure you may not know.
"Oh, and screw all that scientific crap."
Uh huh. This thing called the credibility gap between you and reality is waning.
"I know what i have and weild, and i know how to control it.
So what? Like I said before, being able to create phenomena does nothing to prove pholosophy or undectable energy forces. Can you really do it on command? Will it work against anyone, the entire earth's population?
"Why are you even on this site if your going to be so skeptical of everything?"
One should be skeptical, especially when someone makes knowledge claims about phenomena that they have no evidence for.
For instance, you can claim your ability comes from chi which is a magical energy in everything, but I could easily say that your ability really comes from satan and it is his demonic powers and your fallen soul that give you such talents. Neither of us has any evidence for either idea, and both are quite silly.
I am skeptical is because I know what I am. I am skeptical of reality's very existence. I am skeptical that there was a past, the present is here and now, and that there will be a future.

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Posted on Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:29 pm

### Shadow_of_Iga

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 35

To possamai, "Off course you still need to keep an open mind for things.."
Well, exactly, thats all im trying to say. I find it hard to be skeptical of something and believe in it as well, for some reason that just doesn't mix well in my head, heh.
To Kief, "Can you really do it on command? Will it work against anyone"
Actually, yes I can. Oh, and "the entire earth's population?" Well, i'm not that good yet.
I have a question for you Kief, are you Christian? Just wondering, I have a theory as to why we all have this chi inside of us. It makes sense too, but you will probably just come back with something against it so I'm not even going to say it, your way too skeptical to tell it to. Either your way too skeptical or my mind is kept way too far open. I don't think my mind is way too far open though, for in the bible it says that God gives the spirit without limit (just look at my quote). Oh, sorry, I don't know if your Christian or not yet, my bad. I believe in God, I know that God put me and each of us here for a purpose, and I know what my purpose is. That's all I care to say now, sorry to offend anyone who doesn't believe in God.

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Posted on Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:43 pm

### Vladimir

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 666

The definition of "psi" is the mechanism that is used to produce effects considered "psionic" which would include "chi/ki". I personally think it's the exact same mechanism, since they do the same things.

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Posted on Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:25 pm

### randywm

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 510

Ive noticed that before a big tournament fight if i gather Psi i have better control over my body. I can block anything the guy throws at me without alot of effort. My body automatically goes where the person hit is coming. And that never happens to me without gathering psi.

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Posted on Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:00 am

### possamai

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 48

randywm wrote:
Ive noticed that before a big tournament fight if i gather Psi i have better control over my body. I can block anything the guy throws at me without alot of effort. My body automatically goes where the person hit is coming. And that never happens to me without gathering psi.

I think that's a part of awareness being build up.
There's a ninjitsu exam for a a black belt rank where you sit on your knees. Behind you is a guy with a wooden sword, and he's gonna drop it on top of your head but you don't know when... You need to be 'aware' enough to be able to roll away just in time to not have a headache..
it's awareness, and as far as I'm concerened it's the same in chi, ki or psi so as far as I'm concerned it's all the same energy..
I do not have the experience myself, but a friend of mine has, and loves to talk about it

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