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Evidence that OBEs are not hallucination
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Posted on Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:01 am

### fooneyguy

Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 6

To my knowlege there hasn't been any concrete, real, creative, and useful research done on any psychic phenomena. At least not for any substantial peoird of time. Perhaps because no one stands to profit from it. More likely however is that people expect it to work like math. You put in these numbers you get this outcome. Well it just doesn't, it's far less tangible and much deeper. In order to really test this kind of thing you need someone who has mastered it which would take at the least a lifetime even if you had instruction. We are kind of the pioneers here. So I say if you really want to know whether it's real make your own experiments. If they don't convince anyone else then perhaps you can convince yourself whether it's true.

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Yeah. on Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:38 am

### Xiouslaidyn

Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 194

I agree with Peebrain, OBEs are real... no evidence to prove it though.
I disagree with DanielH, and HE has no evidence to prove they are NOT real... No concrete evidence, anyway.
I would like to thank DanielH for helping me be a better person, and teaching me that it's not nice to.... Troll, as he puts it....

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Posted on Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:38 am

### larryleisure

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 44

fooneyguy wrote:
We are kind of the pioneers here.

Exactly, you're the pioneers!! So it's your role to make some efforts and get this known by a wider audience (and perhaps by the scientific community). Else, who will do it?? Or maybe you All prefer to keep that for yourself, within your small community...
If I had the chance to bring something new to this World, I'd definitely try to do it.

Quote:
In order to really test this kind of thing you need someone who has mastered it which would take at the least a lifetime even if you had instruction.

I don't really agree. When I see (and there are tons of) experiments and stuff people here do (the videos posted, bent spoons, people that OBE and know exactly what someone was doing in another room), don't tell me that would not be sufficient to at least attract the attention. What else you need???? I don't think we have to wait for the first human that can fly through will power to at least try to prove things.

Quote:
I disagree with DanielH, and HE has no evidence to prove they are NOT real... No concrete evidence, anyway.

True, he has no evidence to prove they are not real. Have you evidence to prove they are real???? No.
To me even the fact we have found a region of the brain related to OBE sensation would not mean OBE don't exist... but it doesn't mean that OBE exist either. Could simply be that due to the fact you're still alive, there's still a connection to your physical body and that's why you can see some brain activity. Whilst if you're really dead, that connection is lost, and you're 100% etheric and no more physical. That's just to say that this region in the brain doesn't necessarily means OBE don't exist to me... but so far, I see nothing that proves me the contrary.
cheers

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Posted on Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:14 pm

### Xiouslaidyn

Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 194

Quote:
True, he has no evidence to prove they are not real. Have you evidence to prove they are real???? No. To me even the fact we have found a region of the brain related to OBE sensation would not mean OBE don't exist... but it doesn't mean that OBE exist either. Could simply be that due to the fact you're still alive, there's still a connection to your physical body and that's why you can see some brain activity. Whilst if you're really dead, that connection is lost, and you're 100% etheric and no more physical. That's just to say that this region in the brain doesn't necessarily means OBE don't exist to me... but so far, I see nothing that proves me the contrary.

Yes, well, why don't you read my post again. You'llnotice I had said I had no evidence to prove their existence.

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Posted on Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:38 pm

### larryleisure

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 44

oh yeah right, u know what, it even took me now 3 times to reread your post and spot that
sorry, must be the heat and 'coz I'm a bit tired from work lol
anyway, we're saying the same thing, so... no worries

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Posted on Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:05 pm

### infected

Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 104

This is a good link on this subject: http://www.web-us.com/oobe/oobe.htm (scroll down to "Are OBEs some kind of hallucination?", almost at the bottom)
And it has a nice conclusion:

Quote:

But what of the differences between hallucinations and OBEs? You may point to the state of consciousness associated with the two and argue that OBEs often occur when the person claims to be wide awake, and thinking perfectly normally. But so can hallucinations. With certain drugs consciousness and thinking seem to be clearer than ever before, just as they often do in an OBE. An important difference is that in the OBE, the objects of perception are organized consistently as though they do constitute a stable, physical world. But such is not always the case; there are many cases which involve experiences beyond anything to be seen in the physical world.
Consideration of imagery and hallucinations might provide some sort of framework for understanding the OBE. It would be seen as just one form of a range of hallucinatory experiences. But (and this is a big but) if the OBE is basically an hallucination and nothing actually leaves the body, then paranormal events ought not necessarily to be associated with it. People ought not to be able to see distant unknown places or influence objects while 'out of the body'; yet there are many claims to such an effect.

peace ?

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Posted on Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:13 pm

### DanielH

Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 479

Quote:
I disagree with DanielH, and HE has no evidence to prove they are NOT real... No concrete evidence, anyway.

- Xiouslaidyn
At least I have something. OBEs can be caused by any number of things. Somethings work every single time. Such as the brain thing for example. Do you have any evidence suggesting that they're real? No? Then why are you posting in this topic?

Quote:
This is a good link on this subject: http://www.web-us.com/oobe/oobe.htm (scroll down to "Are OBEs some kind of hallucination?", almost at the bottom)

- infected
The article was decent. It made some sense and all that. I should get around to reading the rest of the article one day.
I'd like to see someone who can actually see stuff from a distance during an OBE. I've yet to see any VALID experimentation done on that. If anyone is up for a non-scientific experiment just PM me and we can discuss details.

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Posted on Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:27 am

### larryleisure

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 44

O back you up on that one
That article and chapter is very interesting, and that's exactly what I'm asking myself too.
But we come to the same thing again; in the article they also claim that during OBE you can see things in a different place....

Quote:
i'd like to see someone who can actually see stuff from a distance during an OBE. I've yet to see any VALID experimentation done on that. If anyone is up for a non-scientific experiment just PM me and we can discuss details.

So, yes, any volunteer??
No one willing to help science progress?

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Posted on Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:08 pm

### DanielH

Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 479

Bump. To THE MAX!!!

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