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do you want psi to be proven real?
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Posted on Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:24 pm

### Thanatos

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 249

Yamamaya: The thing is there are people on each edge of that rope.
On one have we have extreme skeptics that will look down on anything not logical to them.
On the other hand we have crazy/fluffly/woo's that claim they can bend spoons and predict FOOTBALL MATCH RESULTS (failing to do so) on national tv and get loads of money. We also have websites claiming to teach "empty hand martial arts" and many other things.
In my humble opinion the best thing is to be a smart open minded skeptic, in other words, be curious about everything but experiment without falling into the placebo trap (Sometimes we want something to be real so badly that our mind makes it real).

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Posted on Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:04 am

### mattz1010

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 885

A skeptic is open to other people's discussions and to hear both sides of the argument. An idiot is a commonly portrayed stereotype of a cynic, one who will believe their own opinion to the end of time.
If I mixed up cynic and skeptic, kick me. Really, really hard.

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Posted on Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:42 pm

### Eillaub

Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 15

Well, I'm not sure exactly what would happen but I think the way humans are trashing this planet that if everyone was involved in Psionics then maybe we would have a chance to start over new and try to look deeper into life. I'm tired of people thinking that this is all there is to life - I think it's only that way because they make it so. If we all traveled inward and outward, I think it could be one of the best things happened to humanity. In fact I really don't know why more people aren't fighting for the cause, or why so many are opposing it.

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Posted on Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:28 pm

### mattz1010

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 885

It's too early for society to accept psionics, as beneficial as it would be to humanity - we're going to have to learn the hard way, as we have for the past 5000 years, or however Homo Sapiens has been in existence.
People are opposed to change, even if it means their ultimate destruction in not doing so.

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Posted on Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:59 am

### boirac

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 4

Hi, first of all hello to you all (I just registered).
A little comment on "mart"'s post.

Quote:

_FACT: We know that our brains works through electric connections, like a radio, and like a radio, electricity allows us to produce frequency (electric impulsions). If we can produce frequency, then why couldn't we emit it? If we can emit, then we surely have a receptor...

I am afraid it is a bit more tricky.
Experiments have been done (you can read Rhine or Pratt, J. Gaither about experiments in Russia) in which the sender or the telepathic receiver are in a "Faraday cage" (that is a metal box from which the electromagnetic waves cannot escape or come in (so, no light, nor radio waves, nor X-ray or any other frequency). In spite of this, the telepathy was proven to a high extent looking at strong deviations in probability of guess!
Furthermore, the intensity of electromagnetic waves decreases like 1/distance^2, therefore very fast. But strong PSI effects have been reported at very long distances! 8-|
Anyhow! It's a difficult and slippery interaction... that has properties different from the 4 currently known.
I hope this clarifies a bit ... why PSI is some way mysterious to science. (or one of the reasons at least).
Cheers!

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Posted on Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:41 am

### EvilLaughKid2

Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8

Red_Devil wrote:

Yamamaya wrote:
i will say this to every sceptic i come across. please prove that this does not exist! if you say we have no proof that it does, then please find proof it doesn't!

The best thing you do is, don't even pick a discussion with someone who says it doesn't exist. I learned it through experience, it's not worth your time. You'll say to them to prove it doesn't exist, they do the opposite, saying that you have to prove it does exist, leading to a neverending cycle. Just learn to ignore it like I did. Close minded people (note I'm not saying skeptics...) don't deserve that I waste my time proving something, so that in the end, with the ball on my side, they still remain stubborn and attached to their original beliefs.

Here, http://www.candleinthedark.com/logic.html
Read up on logic. The burden of proof is on the person making the positive claim. If you can't prove it, then stay out of arguments, because you just make the psychic position look bad with your illogic.

Thanatos wrote:
Yamamaya: That doesnt make any sense. With the same logic i could tell you that i can fly, then you would say people cant fly prove that they can, then i would say prove that they cant. Beleiving something just because you cant prove it doesnt exist is stupid. You cant really "prove" something doesnt exist. And trust me if people beleived things just because other people told them to we would still have religious monarchy. Being a sceptic is a good thing.

Exactly. The one thing I have to add to this is that you said with the same logic. When it is actually the opposite of logic.

Yamamaya wrote:
but, to tell the honest truth, skeptisizm never got anyone anywhere in the world.

Except mentally sane. . .
being non-skeptical is a shortcut to the straight jacket hotel.

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Posted on Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:40 am

### wushu_psion

Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 104

healthy skepticism is good, and its saved the world complete destruction. part of the problem here is that people on this site look at a very constrained view of "psionics" and magic in this discussion. as we all can tell the difference, the rest of sosciety cant, expecially since our planet is completely dominated by monotheistic religeons that say anything "pheonominal" is associated with the devil. the problem isnt just the scientists, in fact, most of it isnt the scientists (or the scientific side of them anyways...) but the main problem is with the main religions of the world looking down upon these things. these "paranormal" abilities are always assoscated with posession and demonic entaties (although, its not constrained to that... it arrives naturally too....) causing panic when something like this is presented... and nobody wants the witch burnings again... im not saying theres anything wrong with the religeons, heck, ive studied most of them(their occult side at least), but ive found that that side of them is hidden under lock and kea, available only to those who search for it, and who have reached high enough of the ranks in the religeon to have access to it.
sry if some of it is jarbled... its 11:40...

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Posted on Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:56 am

### Thanatos

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 249

If people were not skeptics we would still burn witches, beleive in the gods of olympus, be superstitious, use up all our money on tarrot cards and gypsy rip-offs. As well as we would have no democracy and we would blindly follow our monarch as supreme ruler. Skeptism is the thing that broke religious monarchism in byzantium, as well as in egypt were the monarch would proclaim himself "god". People who loath skeptism are fooling themselves.

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Posted on Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:12 am

### Kief

Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 120

Illusionists get Las Vegas contracts. Magicians get burned.
On the other hand I find it imperative to show the world that paranormal events actually occur.
Why worry about what people will do? People will do what people will do no matter what. Knowing is always better than not knowing. Ignorance may be bliss, but at the end of the day you are still ignorant, and that is no way to live. Is the discovery of atomic power a good thing or a bad thing? On the one hand we have atomic bombs, but on the other hand we have easy energy and insight into physical reality.
All scientific discoveries both create a benefit and a detriment to mankind.
Not everyone can do atomic physics and have the mental capacity to put their knowledge into pratice and make an atomic bomb, despite whatever kind of blueprints one can find and follow and what materials they have (alledging they have everything they need to make a working bomb).
The same goes for magick. The majority just can't do it, and they never will. They don't have the ability, their brain is just not turned on in that way. They don't have the gene, or the gene isn't turned on, or the gene doesn't express itself enough for it to be possible. They are not a star child. They "just don't get it", and they never will, not enough to do anything remotely significant than have a dream (premonition) that later comes true.
People worry about intent, evil intent, good intent, whatever, when it really doesn't matter. So what if someone has an ability to kill someone with their mind by wanting it to happen? Eventually they will meet their demise through someone else with the same ability or they will just get shot. Life tends to balance itself out.
I am able to use magick to play poker (in real life and online) and win. In addition to good poker skills and playing, reading people, playing correctly, it is a skill I have tried to hone while I play poker. Is that evil, wrong? No, but it does create an unfair advantage for me when I play. But hey, its not my fault I know whats going to happen, since I'll know when I'm going to win and when I'm going to lose. Life isn't fair, and all's fair in love and war.
People need to know. They really do, and the world will be better off.

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Posted on Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:02 pm

### Woodpecker

Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 218

Kief wrote:
The same goes for magick. The majority just can't do it, and they never will. They don't have the ability, their brain is just not turned on in that way. They don't have the gene, or the gene isn't turned on, or the gene doesn't express itself enough for it to be possible. They are not a star child. They "just don't get it", and they never will, not enough to do anything remotely significant than have a dream (premonition) that later comes true.

To me this is utter rubbish. I'm only just starting out in psionics (and thus probably on thin ice) but judging by what I have read, anyone can learn to be psychic if they have a mind open enough to handle the concept. I'm sure there are people in this world who are naturally good at empathy, PK or whatever you want to specify, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the average man on the street couldn't learn if he wanted to. In his 'Psions Handbook', Peebrain says that he was never naturally good at psionics, but it didn't stop him learning. Maxim Vengerov has always been a fantastic violinist, but me? I can still play it and entertain people even if I'm nowhere near as good as him.

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Posted on Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:20 pm

### Apollo

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1589

you are right, Woodpecker. It is just impossible to argue with "Kief" because when he is opposed, he makes personal insults. I gave up with him.

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Posted on Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:42 am

### WhiteRaven

Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 343

"People worry about intent, evil intent, good intent, whatever, when it really doesn't matter. So what if someone has an ability to kill someone with their mind by wanting it to happen? Eventually they will meet their demise through someone else with the same ability or they will just get shot. Life tends to balance itself out. "
you are talking about karma. Thass against the rules.

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Posted on Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:04 pm

### psi_manipulator_3000

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 1274

Yamamaya wrote:
the bible is still the no 1. best seller in the world.

i only read the first page of this post so excuse me if im butting in out of topic, but to clarify, the bible WAS the number 1 best seller. It was outsold by Harry Potter last year or the year before that. So really, theres enough Harry Potter's to go around every hotel. lol

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Re: Jumping in. on Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:08 pm

### Bob_stew

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 265

mart wrote:

There is (to my humble little analysis) nothing "psychic" into telepathy, or at least nothing comparable to "spirit" related experiences.
The explaination is actually pretty scientific and logic :
_FACT: We know that our brains works through electric connections, like a radio, and like a radio, electricity allows us to produce frequency (electric impulsions). If we can produce frequency, then why couldn't we emit it? If we can emit, then we surely have a receptor...
_CHALLENGE: Learn how to control, translate or encript/decript, target and emit these frequencies!

Yeah, that's a rough version of what most of us believe. (Some just don't care as long as it works, and that's okay too.) Psionics isn't believed to break any natural laws. That is, if we don't look at the fluffbunnies..

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Posted on Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:00 am

### Woodpecker

Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 218

Lol I just realised I never answered the original question!! Well, I do get frustrated when people stubbonly deny its existence without even investigating scientific literature which, even if there is nothing solid, does point to a bias in favour of psi. On that front, yes I think it would be great if it was accepted in modern society and science. However the other side of the coin is that if people did accept it, it probably wouldn't be too long before someone tried to ban it, and things could get very nasty. People will try and stop anything they can't handle. I think on the whole I'm in favour of it not being universally accepted, more for our protection. However, it would be nice for people to stop persececuting us for our beliefs.

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