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Skeptics vs. Psions arguement thread
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Posted on Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:20 am

### jdsama

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2

desg90 wrote:

psion:
Maybe they were just newbies, or maybe they were just whitelights.
Why is it too good? The practice bit seems like a nightmare for everyone.
Where's the wrong part? There are no pills, or magic stuff (not magik, I meant magic in a fluff way), or anything quick and easy.
Psionics has not been proven real, true, but has not been proven unreal either.
So, what's wrong?

Skeptic:
Psionics can't be proven untrue , much like the existance of deities or fairies, that doesn't make it believable. It seems to me to be a little too good to be true largely from it's variability , we have what is supposedly a single force or effect allowing a number of radically different abilities. For instance telepathy involves a radically different style of exchange compared to pregognition and out of body perception which in turn seem very much logically seperated from force exertion based psionics like telekinesis or psiballs. It's hard to scientifically align these effects however traditionally they have been placed in the same category in mythology , that immediately raises some eyebrows . Furthermore the nature of the claims often seems to defy the more obvious conclusions about how something like psi could work (hidden network of energy like zero point or some such) for example effecting psionic phenomena online , to use your mexico to utah case , surely one would either have to be aware of the exact location or the exact path needed to reach their target so far away?
When it's so difficult to add up the explanations it's hard not to maintain a modicum of doubt.
Furthermore if one examines the majority of psionic power claimed here by the forum hoi polloi it's not the impressive less scientifically explainable feats like telekinesis or difficult precog /testable out of body experiences. They seem to be in general able to make the odd item twitch or achieve the kind of visual and sensory effects commonplace in meditation . The number of members claiming truly spectatcular effects is from my scanning of the various forums a little limited(not that , that would be completely unexpected were psionics genuine, it just does little to engender faith).
I myself have tried most of the guides on this site and a number of others in my time , and have acheived much the effects I normally do , one can trigger visual hallucinations,sensory alteration(to the point of blisters and the like if done foolishly) lucid dreaming, conscious manipulation of imaginary environments, hypersensitivity to subconsciously gathered information(often mistaken for information gathered from precog or out of body perception). Of course that doesn't mean others arn't achieving things through psionics but it's very easy to fool yourself about these matters.
And finally I'm sure noone will deny there are probably a few charlatans on this site , it's very easy to fake this stuff in an internet setting and many people enjoy doing so for fun and attention. I had a friend who for his university project created a site about his psionic powers where he'd utilise showmanship , video editing/deceiving setups, and some orwellianesque modification of the past to demonstrate a whole range of abilities such as precog telekinesis , the point was to determine how many people he could convince that he was genuine and secondly how many he could convince that they too had powers. Anyway simply put it is not beyond the application of a little too much free time to make much of this stuff up and do it convincingly to a receptive audience.
Overall with the combination of these effects it's a little hard to fully trust evidence and even the commonly achievable effects found on this site.

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Posted on Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:27 pm

### desg90

Joined: 04 Jun 2006
Posts: 29

Well, no one denies there are fakes everywhere. I can just write that I'm really big and beefy, that I have lots of friends and that I am the best at sports, when in real life I've got some ponds around the waist, I'm a geek and have very few friends. That's the risk of internet.
Yep, it is true that some are just deceiving themselves and claim their hallucunations as psychic phenomena. But it seems more to me that you're deceiving yourself and try to think that all you've done was mere hallucinations.
On the other hand, you have people who were experiencing psychic phenomena before arriving into psipog. Like me. It all started with precog and I made a google search.
Yep, according to the Brittish Enciclopaedia, in my living room, evidence is difficult to gather due to the lack of controlled situations in which they (psychic phenomena) happen. We'll have to wait until science gets a move on and starts making some serious research about psi. Until then, threads like this will continue to exist.

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