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So, How much does it really take?

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SheepKing

Just a thought; Normally when visualizing "psi" we see this stream of energy/particles or what have you that is dense and and uniform. But; How much of that interpretation is correct? When you make that psiball I'm sure in your mind you are seeing this uniform solid ball of energy, or perhaps very dense ball that has hardly any gaps to it; But what if it's only like... 10% correct looking :-P.
I think it's kind of interesting that maybe it could be just a "few" of whatever unit psi should be measured in, in the affected area.
Just a thought; Normally when visualizing "psi" we see this stream of energy/particles or what have you that is dense and and uniform. But; How much of that interpretation is correct? When you make that psiball I'm sure in your mind you are seeing this uniform solid ball of energy, or perhaps very dense ball that has hardly any gaps to it; But what if it's only like... 10% correct looking :-P. I think it's kind of interesting that maybe it could be just a "few" of whatever unit psi should be measured in, in the affected area.

Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

AndPious

I'm guessing it takes a heck of a lot more than I usually give. I seem to have trouble visualizing "dense" energy. For me, it's usually just a stream of "whatever blue" which has no physical properties at all. Massless (therefore no density), weightless, and as thin as the fluid of space.
I'm guessing since nobody actually *sees* psi (unless flaring is seeing the psi itself) we don't know exactly what we're going for. It's possible that indeed we visualize something very far from what it is in reality, but maybe if we get close enough... BANG goes a psiball. ;)
I'm guessing it takes a heck of a lot more than I usually give. I seem to have trouble visualizing "dense" energy. For me, it's usually just a stream of "whatever blue" which has no physical properties at all. Massless (therefore no density), weightless, and as thin as the fluid of space. I'm guessing since nobody actually *sees* psi (unless flaring is seeing the psi itself) we don't know exactly what we're going for. It's possible that indeed we visualize something very far from what it is in reality, but maybe if we get close enough... BANG goes a psiball. ;)

Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

Boom

Its all one energy in different names. How you visualize is how your subconscious is interpreting that energy for you to gain conscious control of.
Its all one energy in different names. How you visualize is how your subconscious is interpreting that energy for you to gain conscious control of.

Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

Boom

Also should stress then if your subconscious is visualizing it there is no '10% correct' looking because your subconscious is ALWAYS right. As long as you can see it in your minds eye and YOU know what it is, then thats what it is. The subconscious can only talk to you through what you already learned.
Also should stress then if your subconscious is visualizing it there is no '10% correct' looking because your subconscious is ALWAYS right. As long as you can see it in your minds eye and YOU know what it is, then thats what it is. The subconscious can only talk to you through what you already learned.

Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

Boom

A way your subconscious communicates with you is through your curiosity. It will peak your interest in certain things for you to read, listen, watch - whatever. The more you learn the more it can talk to you until you acknowledge it for what, it, is. Learning from yours and others mistakes is one very important of communicating with the subconscious.
Things Of Interest
'The Secret' - yes the movie
Once you get comfortable with that go to the
Twin Flame
Once you get in touch with that go to
Qigong
Please don't criticize the above subjects of interest. I don't have time or energy to defend all that. Discrepancies later, read first. Know that everything starts from somewhere and in this world our thoughts are the beginning of a new life. Choose the thoughts that choose your ACTIONS and you either choose a good life or an AMAZING LIFE.
Know the astral and KNOW what it TAKES TO RISE IN THE ASTRAL. Its like a nice mcdonalds. Dont eat the fries.
A way your subconscious communicates with you is through your curiosity. It will peak your interest in certain things for you to read, listen, watch - whatever. The more you learn the more it can talk to you until you acknowledge it for what, it, is. Learning from yours and others mistakes is one very important of communicating with the subconscious. Things Of Interest 'The Secret' - yes the movie Once you get comfortable with that go to the Twin Flame Once you get in touch with that go to Qigong Please don't criticize the above subjects of interest. I don't have time or energy to defend all that. Discrepancies later, read first. Know that everything starts from somewhere and in this world our thoughts are the beginning of a new life. Choose the thoughts that choose your ACTIONS and you either choose a good life or an AMAZING LIFE. Know the astral and KNOW what it TAKES TO RISE IN THE ASTRAL. Its like a nice mcdonalds. Dont eat the fries.

Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

SheepKing

You consciously visualizes so your subconscious knows what you're doing; or trying to do.
I think you've missed the point of the post Boom :-P.
You consciously visualizes so your subconscious knows what you're doing; or trying to do. I think you've missed the point of the post Boom :-P.

Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

Boom

I know Sheepy, I couldn't help myself. I apologize for that.
"You consciously visualizes so your subconscious knows what you're doing; or trying to do" - You
"How you visualize is how your subconscious is interpreting that energy for you to gain conscious control of" - Me
Same meaning different words. The first part of my sentence implies that you must consciously visualize.
I know Sheepy, I couldn't help myself. I apologize for that. "You consciously visualizes so your subconscious knows what you're doing; or trying to do" - You "How you visualize is how your subconscious is interpreting that energy for you to gain conscious control of" - Me Same meaning different words. The first part of my sentence implies that you must consciously visualize.

Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

SheepKing

It still seems backwards to me. :-P
It still seems backwards to me. :-P

Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

Boom

I really think its just a harmless misunderstanding.
I really think its just a harmless misunderstanding.

Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

deusxmachina

For me, it's just about every single sense I have that goes into processing whatever construct.
Let's take the infamous psiball: This is what goes through my head:
1) I develop the intention to make the psiball, I place my hands and think about the intentions.
2) I visualize energy mobilizing and try to 'push' it. I'm not sure how else to describe it, it's an instinct I've used since I got into psi, the best I can explain it is when you want to move a muscle, you don't think about moving it, you just DO. Apply that to energy.
3) At this point, if I actually am pulling energy, I will get force feedback. I will feel a force counter to my energy-motive force, and (bare with me) my thoughts develop inertia and resistance. I can think the psiball anywhere I want, but it's not guaranteed to respond perfectly
4) If my auric vision is working well enough, I can see the energy ripples created by it. Once again, I notice lag when I try to move it quickly or change its shape.
It's still a quantitative process though. If you are open enough, your mind and the energy should reach an equilibrium in which the amount of energy you perceive is quite close to the amount of energy that is concretely there.
I can usually tell when I 'derail,' e.g. what I'm thinking about is no longer having an effect on the construct (I've gone from visualization which has intent, to just imagining). However, once I get my focus back in tune, the construct will resume forming itself into my intent.
I've always thought it would be cool to have an energy unit for psi, but it'd be nearly impossible with the current technology. The closest thing we have are things like Geiger counters, which I feel only measure the effects of psi, not the pure energy.
For me, it's just about every single sense I have that goes into processing whatever construct. Let's take the infamous psiball: This is what goes through my head: 1) I develop the intention to make the psiball, I place my hands and think about the intentions. 2) I visualize energy mobilizing and try to 'push' it. I'm not sure how else to describe it, it's an instinct I've used since I got into psi, the best I can explain it is when you want to move a muscle, you don't think about moving it, you just DO. Apply that to energy. 3) At this point, if I actually am pulling energy, I will get force feedback. I will feel a force counter to my energy-motive force, and (bare with me) my thoughts develop inertia and resistance. I can think the psiball anywhere I want, but it's not guaranteed to respond perfectly 4) If my auric vision is working well enough, I can see the energy ripples created by it. Once again, I notice lag when I try to move it quickly or change its shape. It's still a quantitative process though. If you are open enough, your mind and the energy should reach an equilibrium in which the amount of energy you perceive is quite close to the amount of energy that is concretely there. I can usually tell when I 'derail,' e.g. what I'm thinking about is no longer having an effect on the construct (I've gone from visualization which has intent, to just imagining). However, once I get my focus back in tune, the construct will resume forming itself into my intent. I've always thought it would be cool to have an energy unit for psi, but it'd be nearly impossible with the current technology. The closest thing we have are things like Geiger counters, which I feel only measure the effects of psi, not the pure energy.

Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

SheepKing

Sounds reasonable to me Duesexmachina ; I know what you're talking about with derailing too.
Agreed on the geiger counters possibly measuring effects of psi; not the psi itself.
Sounds reasonable to me Duesexmachina ; I know what you're talking about with derailing too. Agreed on the geiger counters possibly measuring effects of psi; not the psi itself.

Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

mrj

When it comes to moving a somewhat stable psi ball, simply "thinking" it someplace else isnt enough (for me).I have to put in a bit more effort to get it to go someplace. I can tell where one is if it pushes my hands apart, and if I actualy have moved it then my hands wont be forced away. Not only that, but it doesnt seem to instantly move to where I direct it. I think it might take a certain amount of time to travel from , say, point A to point B, but it might be the same amount of time (depending on focus) even if the distance is larger. which might explain a seemingly fast or slow travel speed, becuase of distance.
(But maybe thats just me, but yeah, I think psi related stuff would be easier if we just knew were the energy was to give us a good idea where to improve)
When it comes to moving a somewhat stable psi ball, simply "thinking" it someplace else isnt enough (for me).I have to put in a bit more effort to get it to go someplace. I can tell where one is if it pushes my hands apart, and if I actualy have moved it then my hands wont be forced away. Not only that, but it doesnt seem to instantly move to where I direct it. I think it might take a certain amount of time to travel from , say, point A to point B, but it might be the same amount of time (depending on focus) even if the distance is larger. which might explain a seemingly fast or slow travel speed, becuase of distance. (But maybe thats just me, but yeah, I think psi related stuff would be easier if we just knew were the energy was to give us a good idea where to improve)

Last edited by mrj, 4 years, 8 months ago
Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

Antisankari

As for the energy.
One hint might be the blood potassium level drop that has been reported as a side-effect. Mostly in attempts with telekinesis.
If somebody moves item that weights X grams and the difference in his blood potassium levels are Y, we can calculate the amount of energy needed to move the object and see the amount of potassium spent.
When making a psiball, one could take a blood test before and after attempt. This way we could get a hint of the amounts of energy that are in work.
According to this way of thinking, we could calculate the absolute maximum that can be achieved by an individual. Highest possible potassium level measured in blood. Difference between that and the lowest possible potassium level not killing you.
As for the energy. One hint might be the blood potassium level drop that has been reported as a side-effect. Mostly in attempts with telekinesis. If somebody moves item that weights X grams and the difference in his blood potassium levels are Y, we can calculate the amount of energy needed to move the object and see the amount of potassium spent. When making a psiball, one could take a blood test before and after attempt. This way we could get a hint of the amounts of energy that are in work. According to this way of thinking, we could calculate the absolute maximum that can be achieved by an individual. Highest possible potassium level measured in blood. Difference between that and the lowest possible potassium level not killing you.

Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

Wandering Wolf

Some of the wording that I've seen here is a little odd to me, so I've decided to provide a similar interpretation in my own words:
"But what if it's only like... 10% correct looking :-P." - SheepKing
Boom's response to this sounded right, but I'd like to provide my own interpretation. I believe that what is "correct" is what you are consciously comfortable with. Your subconscious interprets this and provides the desired effect. I remember reading, back in the days of psipog, one of Sean's articles about energy use. In one section of the article, he talked about how you can visualize something that you associate with healing to create an actual healing response when applying it to the area of concern. The example he used was bandaids.
All right, it looks like I have digressed slightly. Basically, what you consciously believe to represent a high density psi ball should be interpreted by your subconscious as such, leading to an actual dense psi ball in the physical world.
As mentioned in most psi ball exercises, it is probably best to work with what you consider to be low density energy content up until you reach a high density level of energy content. This may be helpful in providing your subconscious with the material to distinguish between a low density psi ball and a high density psi ball. I believe that this is probably why I have not been able to create an actual psi ball. I never bothered making this distinguishment between dense and not so dense energy. The result was that I would only receive a low density energy sensation that my subconscious provided me as a "default" setting.
"I think it's kind of interesting that maybe it could be just a 'few' of whatever unit psi should be measured in, in the affected area." - SheepKing
The so-called "unit psi" is probably just a function of how your subconscious interprets what it sees. If you have familiarized it with the difference between what you want low density and high density psi to look like, then your subconscious should be able to adjust the "unit psi" accordingly to that visual representation based off of its "conditioning".
This is all I have to say for now. I will gladly provide clarification if misunderstanding and/or disagreement arises.
Some of the wording that I've seen here is a little odd to me, so I've decided to provide a similar interpretation in my own words: "But what if it's only like... 10% correct looking :-P." - SheepKing Boom's response to this sounded right, but I'd like to provide my own interpretation. I believe that what is "correct" is what you are consciously comfortable with. Your subconscious interprets this and provides the desired effect. I remember reading, back in the days of psipog, one of Sean's articles about energy use. In one section of the article, he talked about how you can visualize something that you associate with healing to create an actual healing response when applying it to the area of concern. The example he used was bandaids. All right, it looks like I have digressed slightly. Basically, what you consciously believe to represent a high density psi ball should be interpreted by your subconscious as such, leading to an actual dense psi ball in the physical world. As mentioned in most psi ball exercises, it is probably best to work with what you consider to be low density energy content up until you reach a high density level of energy content. This may be helpful in providing your subconscious with the material to distinguish between a low density psi ball and a high density psi ball. I believe that this is probably why I have not been able to create an actual psi ball. I never bothered making this distinguishment between dense and not so dense energy. The result was that I would only receive a low density energy sensation that my subconscious provided me as a "default" setting. "I think it's kind of interesting that maybe it could be just a 'few' of whatever unit psi should be measured in, in the affected area." - SheepKing The so-called "unit psi" is probably just a function of how your subconscious interprets what it sees. If you have familiarized it with the difference between what you want low density and high density psi to look like, then your subconscious should be able to adjust the "unit psi" accordingly to that visual representation based off of its "conditioning". This is all I have to say for now. I will gladly provide clarification if misunderstanding and/or disagreement arises.

Last edited by Wandering Wolf, 4 years, 8 months ago
Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

SheepKing

Let me degenerate to the lowest common denominator.
If I imagine psi kamehameha out of my "3rd eye" to blow holes through Piccolo; Is that what it really looks like? OR; ORRRRR,
When I imagine Psi; My subconscious says "Hah, he's trying to do something psychic. Poor guy; Let me help him out ... *subconscious forms psi into structure necessary to carry out what I am CRUDELY (no matter how detailed your visualizations are; they are crude) trying to interpret to my subconscious to do.*
What I was really getting out with the original post is that the relationship we create with psi in our heads from the get go is probably not right. How often has the relationship that people have created with ANYTHING we can't see been right off the get go? Even for things we DO see we tend to over simplify and over analyze things to the point that we create an "ideal image" of what is really going on.
Just food for thought; You could be right.
Let me degenerate to the lowest common denominator. If I imagine psi kamehameha out of my "3rd eye" to blow holes through Piccolo; Is that what it really looks like? OR; ORRRRR, When I imagine Psi; My subconscious says "Hah, he's trying to do something psychic. Poor guy; Let me help him out ... *subconscious forms psi into structure necessary to carry out what I am CRUDELY (no matter how detailed your visualizations are; they are crude) trying to interpret to my subconscious to do.* What I was really getting out with the original post is that the relationship we create with psi in our heads from the get go is probably not right. How often has the relationship that people have created with ANYTHING we can't see been right off the get go? Even for things we DO see we tend to over simplify and over analyze things to the point that we create an "ideal image" of what is really going on. Just food for thought; You could be right.

Last edited by SheepKing, 4 years, 8 months ago
Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

Wandering Wolf

Ah, I see what you mean. In that case, I will have to agree with you. The actual structure and appearance likely is beyond our comprehension. Trying to get an accurate visualization of a real psi ball would probably be a lot like trying to create your own mental impression of how a substance is atomically structured (without the help of an electron microscope).
Thank you for clarifying your point. This brings to mind how other psionic abilities, such as cryokinesis and pyrokinesis would require a lot of arbitration on the subconscious' part. The way we visualize atoms speeding or slowing down in those exercises must be way off from what it would actually look like.
We are only human afterall, not supercomputers with advanced atomic cognition.
Ah, I see what you mean. In that case, I will have to agree with you. The actual structure and appearance likely is beyond our comprehension. Trying to get an accurate visualization of a real psi ball would probably be a lot like trying to create your own mental impression of how a substance is atomically structured (without the help of an electron microscope). Thank you for clarifying your point. This brings to mind how other psionic abilities, such as cryokinesis and pyrokinesis would require a lot of arbitration on the subconscious' part. The way we visualize atoms speeding or slowing down in those exercises must be way off from what it would actually look like. We are only human afterall, not supercomputers with advanced atomic cognition.

Last edited by Wandering Wolf, 4 years, 8 months ago
Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

SheepKing

No problem; I suppose a lot of things don't look right through our eyes/minds :-P
No problem; I suppose a lot of things don't look right through our eyes/minds :-P

Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

ErikJDurwoodII

When an artist visualizes their work, it is through their talent and skill that they use the tools they have to create what they see in their mind. Speaking as an artist, most often than not, what you see in your mind is often much more pristine and refined than what comes out on the canvas. This is a simple metric of skill. You have mastered your craft when you can create exactly what you visualize in full.
Psionics is no different. Your visualization is like a blueprint. You set your intent and craft the design and purpose. Using your tools, you will create to the best of your ability. The difference here is you need to be able to perceive your results to see if you have created a masterpiece.
And thus the journey continues. ^__^
- Erik
When an artist visualizes their work, it is through their talent and skill that they use the tools they have to create what they see in their mind. Speaking as an artist, most often than not, what you see in your mind is often much more pristine and refined than what comes out on the canvas. This is a simple metric of skill. You have mastered your craft when you can create exactly what you visualize in full. Psionics is no different. Your visualization is like a blueprint. You set your intent and craft the design and purpose. Using your tools, you will create to the best of your ability. The difference here is you need to be able to perceive your results to see if you have created a masterpiece. And thus the journey continues. ^__^ - Erik

Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

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