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Measuring Psi

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Takkun

So, have we established a unit for psi yet? Lol, I've heard psi described in pressure before, maybe we could use psi per square inch, or "psi" =p
So, have we established a unit for psi yet? Lol, I've heard psi described in pressure before, maybe we could use psi per square inch, or "psi" =p

Posted 4 years, 5 months ago

SheepKing

Before you can name a unit you have to know a way to measure it.
Before you can name a unit you have to know a way to measure it.

Posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Takkun

That's true...well, a psi ball is compressed psi, so has anyone tried using a pressure gauge on one?
That's true...well, a psi ball is compressed psi, so has anyone tried using a pressure gauge on one?

Posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Eyeofnight

I was bored during physics once and tried that, no luck for me at least. I wasn't really expecting it to work so that may have affected it but I did have a friend verify that it was a decently "strong" psiball.
I was bored during physics once and tried that, no luck for me at least. I wasn't really expecting it to work so that may have affected it but I did have a friend verify that it was a decently "strong" psiball.

Last edited by Eyeofnight, 4 years, 5 months ago
Posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Akio

We don't really have proof that Psi even exists, for all we know, a psi-ball could be comprised up of controlled energy waves (controlled radiation) that produces heat in our hands. The cold is a little hard to explain, but one should always keep their eyes open to the possibilities and not claim that something happens for any particular reason unless we have sufficient prove to back it up ^_^.
We don't really have proof that Psi even exists, for all we know, a psi-ball could be comprised up of controlled energy waves (controlled radiation) that produces heat in our hands. The cold is a little hard to explain, but one should always keep their eyes open to the possibilities and not claim that something happens for any particular reason unless we have sufficient prove to back it up ^_^.

Posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Takkun

Well, about Psi's existance, back when I was skeptical I always wondered why Sean would spend all this time and effort and money on Psi if it was a scam. Then I found other sites, and also learned "psi" and its synonyms have roots in ancient cultures. So how can a good percentage of the world be deluded on a single issue when it would be explainable if only a few ppl thought it existed. So for me, just the shear number of belief is what gives me faith in Psi.
Well, about Psi's existance, back when I was skeptical I always wondered why Sean would spend all this time and effort and money on Psi if it was a scam. Then I found other sites, and also learned "psi" and its synonyms have roots in ancient cultures. So how can a good percentage of the world be deluded on a single issue when it would be explainable if only a few ppl thought it existed. So for me, just the shear number of belief is what gives me faith in Psi.

Posted 4 years, 5 months ago

redefine

if we had an SI unit for psi, it would be directly related to other physical phenomena eg, in the same way p=vi is, as little constants as possible. and probably named after the guy who worked out how to measure it.
i could probably see it being psi/volume or something similar for constructs. and assuming you use psi for pk, 'change in psi'/time. maybe something similar to bandwidth, or noise measurements would be more appropriate for RV and telepathy
but what sheepking said is really true.
@takkun: a pressure guage would only be usefull in measuring air pressoure, not psi, as psi dosent actually apply a force to anything (unless its told to with pk). unless you were to program a construct to influence the guage with tk, so that the effect is directly proportional to the density of psi in the area, it would be useless. but thats abit complex.
if we had an SI unit for psi, it would be directly related to other physical phenomena eg, in the same way p=vi is, as little constants as possible. and probably named after the guy who worked out how to measure it. i could probably see it being psi/volume or something similar for constructs. and assuming you use psi for pk, 'change in psi'/time. maybe something similar to bandwidth, or noise measurements would be more appropriate for RV and telepathy but what sheepking said is really true. @takkun: a pressure guage would only be usefull in measuring air pressoure, not psi, as psi dosent actually apply a force to anything (unless its told to with pk). unless you were to program a construct to influence the guage with tk, so that the effect is directly proportional to the density of psi in the area, it would be useless. but thats abit complex.

Posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Takkun

Well, part of that is because we are still assuming that Psi is a physical phenomenon. How do we tell if it's spiritual or not? Our dictionary definition of Science and Mine are way off I guess......but last time I checked science was based on reality, not the other way around, and I KNOW psi exists, so even if it doesn't "conform" to the human made scientific method, who's to say its still not scientific, but in a different way? Humans have been known to err a lot in the field of science. "Science" shouldnt be looked at as a foundation but more as a buttress for further study. For all I know psi cant be measured as pressure because it exists in a dimension overlapping ours. We have no way of knowing. But surely, it gives off some form of physical energy if it can travel and move a psiwheel. so....food for thought I guess, Ive just found that here lately, even the Psi community has gotten a little "scientific" for our own good.
Well, part of that is because we are still assuming that Psi is a physical phenomenon. How do we tell if it's spiritual or not? Our dictionary definition of Science and Mine are way off I guess......but last time I checked science was based on reality, not the other way around, and I KNOW psi exists, so even if it doesn't "conform" to the human made scientific method, who's to say its still not scientific, but in a different way? Humans have been known to err a lot in the field of science. "Science" shouldnt be looked at as a foundation but more as a buttress for further study. For all I know psi cant be measured as pressure because it exists in a dimension overlapping ours. We have no way of knowing. But surely, it gives off some form of physical energy if it can travel and move a psiwheel. so....food for thought I guess, Ive just found that here lately, even the Psi community has gotten a little "scientific" for our own good.

Posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Linked

time to tear down the building and start liveing is straw huts then? XP
time to tear down the building and start liveing is straw huts then? XP

Posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Antisankari

1 Sean = 1 Calory/second.
Based on blood Potassium level changes, and the resulting difference in metabolism.
metabolismBeforeActivity-metabolismDuringActivity = X Seans.
Alternative naming could be Cal/S.
Afterall, psi has been associated with the living beings with consciousnes and some sort of metabolism. Every creatures uses X amount of calories / time unit. And the decrease in Potassium should come hand in hand with increased metabolism / energy usage of the body.
Based on the energy conservation principle, the energy projected in psionic effects cannot exceed the amount of calories depleted during the act. As you should not be able to create or destroy energy.
No,no... No need for Nobel nomination.
Thank the Hot Dog, for all it knows.
1 Sean = 1 Calory/second. Based on blood Potassium level changes, and the resulting difference in metabolism. metabolismBeforeActivity-metabolismDuringActivity = X Seans. Alternative naming could be Cal/S. Afterall, psi has been associated with the living beings with consciousnes and some sort of metabolism. Every creatures uses X amount of calories / time unit. And the decrease in Potassium should come hand in hand with increased metabolism / energy usage of the body. Based on the energy conservation principle, the energy projected in psionic effects cannot exceed the amount of calories depleted during the act. As you should not be able to create or destroy energy. No,no... No need for Nobel nomination. Thank the Hot Dog, for all it knows.

Last edited by Antisankari, 4 years, 5 months ago
Posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Akio

For what everybody said... (excluding Antisankari) I have to say that According to Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, the definition of science is "knowledge attained through study or practice," or "knowledge covering general truths of the operation of general laws, esp. as obtained and tested through scientific method [and] concerned with the physical world."
i.e. We cannot prove psi exists because there is no way to accurately test it's existence. Even if someone performed tk, it could be the equivalent of our bodies storing energy in the form of a capacitor and then creating a current of particles which creates the force that causes motion.
We can disprove things with science, and prove them with math.
For what everybody said... (excluding Antisankari) I have to say that According to Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, the definition of science is "knowledge attained through study or practice," or "knowledge covering general truths of the operation of general laws, esp. as obtained and tested through scientific method [and] concerned with the physical world." i.e. We cannot prove psi exists because there is no way to accurately test it's existence. Even if someone performed tk, it could be the equivalent of our bodies storing energy in the form of a capacitor and then creating a current of particles which creates the force that causes motion. We can disprove things with science, and prove them with math.

Posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Takkun

That's my point, all I ever hear is trying to disprove psi, not prove it. Last time I checked, we don't even understand gravity. So I could go around saying I am the sole source of gravity. Doesn't make it true, but I'd like to see you disprove it. And we can't accurately test its existence because we don't understand the mechanics behind it. Psi IS science, so the method is irrelevant. The problem is we separate the two. Just like in religion, science backs it up until humans purposely make them separate.
That's my point, all I ever hear is trying to disprove psi, not prove it. Last time I checked, we don't even understand gravity. So I could go around saying I am the sole source of gravity. Doesn't make it true, but I'd like to see you disprove it. And we can't accurately test its existence because we don't understand the mechanics behind it. Psi IS science, so the method is irrelevant. The problem is we separate the two. Just like in religion, science backs it up until humans purposely make them separate.

Posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Akio

(According to Einstein's Theories, Gravity is the effect of mass on Space-time.)
All I'm really saying here is that we shouldn't try to limit ourselves to the idea that it's all Psi that allows us to do this.
I do Agree with your statement if you are saying that Psionics is Science, because it follows scientific laws and methods. It looks like Chicken, It tastes like chicken, it feels like chicken, therefore it must be chicken.
However, I think that the Idea that Psi is the only explanation is ignorant. One cannot limit themselves to this idea that Psi is what allows us to do the things that we do because it is essentially backtracking in advancement. I did say in another post that knowledge increases with time, that's true...
You are limiting yourself and closing off a chance for advancement by believing that anything is absolutely correct. Rather, I know that the effects work because I have experienced them first hand, I now have to increase my knowledge of reality in order to find an explanation of what I am experiencing.
Something I Agree with with all of my heart, taken from the Home page of this site.
'I don’t have an explanation for all the bizarre experiences I’ve been told about, and had myself. I won’t be able to offer you any concrete answers. What I can offer you is a different mentality.
Instead of allowing society to define what’s normal, it’s time to let reality decide. There is nothing supernatural about the things we experience - if it happens in reality, then it is natural. If society doesn’t like it: tough shit. I’m not here to sugar coat the things I see so the cynics won’t judge me harshly. I’m not here to defend what is ultimately a reflection of reality. I’m not going to try and cram reality into someone else’s belief system. It is our responsibility to change our belief system to fit reality - not the other way around' ~Sean Connelly
It's hypocritical to say that Psi is the only answer to this experience and be on this site. Granted, I'm not here to Make anyone change their beliefs, just to open their eyes.
_______________________________________________________________
And to Antisankari, That comes from the concentration levels required in order to achieve the desired effect, we're like human capacitors. And we drain more then just Potassium
(According to Einstein's Theories, Gravity is the effect of mass on Space-time.) All I'm really saying here is that we shouldn't try to limit ourselves to the idea that it's all Psi that allows us to do this. I do Agree with your statement if you are saying that Psionics is Science, because it follows scientific laws and methods. It looks like Chicken, It tastes like chicken, it feels like chicken, therefore it must be chicken. However, I think that the Idea that Psi is the only explanation is ignorant. One cannot limit themselves to this idea that Psi is what allows us to do the things that we do because it is essentially backtracking in advancement. I did say in another post that knowledge increases with time, that's true... You are limiting yourself and closing off a chance for advancement by believing that anything is absolutely correct. Rather, I know that the effects work because I have experienced them first hand, I now have to increase my knowledge of reality in order to find an explanation of what I am experiencing. Something I Agree with with all of my heart, taken from the Home page of this site. 'I don’t have an explanation for all the bizarre experiences I’ve been told about, and had myself. I won’t be able to offer you any concrete answers. What I can offer you is a different mentality. Instead of allowing society to define what’s normal, it’s time to let reality decide. There is nothing supernatural about the things we experience - if it happens in reality, then it is natural. If society doesn’t like it: tough shit. I’m not here to sugar coat the things I see so the cynics won’t judge me harshly. I’m not here to defend what is ultimately a reflection of reality. I’m not going to try and cram reality into someone else’s belief system. It is our responsibility to change our belief system to fit reality - not the other way around' ~Sean Connelly It's hypocritical to say that Psi is the only answer to this experience and be on this site. Granted, I'm not here to Make anyone change their beliefs, just to open their eyes. _______________________________________________________________ And to Antisankari, That comes from the concentration levels required in order to achieve the desired effect, we're like human capacitors. And we drain more then just Potassium

Last edited by Akio, 4 years, 5 months ago
Posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Takkun

Im not trying to say Psi is the ONLY way, but that something that I call "psi" works. My definition of Psi can differ greatly from yours. Heck, if its about beliefs, I also believe in a spiritual side of things, separate from psi, kinda like psi is for matter, and spirit stuff or whatever is for a different plane, dimension, whatever you wanna call it.
And yes, psi is natural and should not be classified as mysticism. Its just kinda heartbreaking to come to a psion community and find even they themselves half doubt their abilities. And to increase our knowledge of it, we should practice, not tell ppl who want to further classify it that "it might not exist". Can you see where I'm coming from?
Im not trying to say Psi is the ONLY way, but that something that I call "psi" works. My definition of Psi can differ greatly from yours. Heck, if its about beliefs, I also believe in a spiritual side of things, separate from psi, kinda like psi is for matter, and spirit stuff or whatever is for a different plane, dimension, whatever you wanna call it. And yes, psi is natural and should not be classified as mysticism. Its just kinda heartbreaking to come to a psion community and find even they themselves half doubt their abilities. And to increase our knowledge of it, we should practice, not tell ppl who want to further classify it that "it might not exist". Can you see where I'm coming from?

Posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Akio

I Think you're partly right, but I think you are misinterpreting what I'm trying to say. I don't doubt my abilities, but I do not know why they exist.
Basically what I'm saying is that we should not determine something exists ( and giving something a name is an attempt to determine something exists), and rather we should let our knowledge expand to a greater level than saying that it's only psi that does this.
Are you describing Psi as an a force, a derived unit, what? If you don't know these things, you should not assume that you have any answer unless you have the backing to prove it. The fact of the matter is that Psi has no solid definition, and therefor is at this point to general for me to consider the truth. It tends to be that the most specific answer is also the most correct
I didn't make any connection to Mysticism... you're misinterpreting what I'm saying...
You need to open your eyes to further possibilities other then psi, stop hiding behind the undefined Ideal of an intangible, unveil the curtain, and look at it from more than just one point of view. You're calling an effect something that has no definition, that is what leads to delusion. Making something more than it is.
I do not doubt any of my abilities, it's just that we as a community are limiting ourselves by saying that it's only one thing that causes any specific effect, even though these affects may have the same base root.
I may have theories that involve psi, but I also have those that do not involve it. Do yousee my point here?
Furthermore, I am not telling anyone that it might not exist, because it very well might exist. I rather think that YOU SHOULD OPEN YOUR EYES to all possibilities, including those that say that everything that we have devoted our time to is incorrect.
I Think you're partly right, but I think you are misinterpreting what I'm trying to say. I don't doubt my abilities, but I do not know why they exist. Basically what I'm saying is that we should not determine something exists ( and giving something a name is an attempt to determine something exists), and rather we should let our knowledge expand to a greater level than saying that it's only psi that does this. Are you describing Psi as an a force, a derived unit, what? If you don't know these things, you should not assume that you have any answer unless you have the backing to prove it. The fact of the matter is that Psi has no solid definition, and therefor is at this point to general for me to consider the truth. It tends to be that the most specific answer is also the most correct I didn't make any connection to Mysticism... you're misinterpreting what I'm saying... You need to open your eyes to further possibilities other then psi, stop hiding behind the undefined Ideal of an intangible, unveil the curtain, and look at it from more than just one point of view. You're calling an effect something that has no definition, that is what leads to delusion. Making something more than it is. I do not doubt any of my abilities, it's just that we as a community are limiting ourselves by saying that it's only one thing that causes any specific effect, even though these affects may have the same base root. I may have theories that involve psi, but I also have those that do not involve it. Do yousee my point here? Furthermore, I am not telling anyone that it might not exist, because it very well might exist. I rather think that YOU SHOULD OPEN YOUR EYES to all possibilities, including those that say that everything that we have devoted our time to is incorrect.

Posted 4 years, 5 months ago

redefine

there are a couple of things missing. people are using physical as if physicality is the only thing covered by science. in fact, science covers anything that can be objectively observed, as psi effects can be, as has been shown by a number of scientific psi papers. wether psi is material or not, it dosent matter, as long as it can be observed, we can test it with science. and if something is unsceintific (aka. untestable), dosent mean its false. a necessarily true philosophical statement is both true and unscientific.
Akio: i dont see your point. psi was defined as the unknown mechanic behind PK TP and RV in parapsychological science like 20 or 30 years ago. by that definition, any theory about this is a psi theory
i havent met anyone on the oec that doubts that they can do the things they do (that would be insanity in any sence of the word) but why it happens.
there are a couple of things missing. people are using physical as if physicality is the only thing covered by science. in fact, science covers anything that can be objectively observed, as psi effects can be, as has been shown by a number of scientific psi papers. wether psi is material or not, it dosent matter, as long as it can be observed, we can test it with science. and if something is unsceintific (aka. untestable), dosent mean its false. a necessarily true philosophical statement is both true and unscientific. Akio: i dont see your point. psi was defined as the unknown mechanic behind PK TP and RV in parapsychological science like 20 or 30 years ago. by that definition, any theory about this is a psi theory i havent met anyone on the oec that doubts that they can do the things they do (that would be insanity in any sence of the word) but why it happens.

Posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Antisankari

In theory, every opinion on psi is a hypothesis before tested.
"
hypothesis: a tentative insight into the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena; "a scientific hypothesis that survives experimental testing becomes a scientific theory"
"
In theory, every opinion on psi is a hypothesis before tested. " hypothesis: a tentative insight into the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena; "a scientific hypothesis that survives experimental testing becomes a scientific theory" "

Posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Akio

Well Said Antisakari.
redifine... My point is that you need to keep your mind open to the possibilities out there. Objectively, Psi hasn't been proven to BE anything.
"Psi (pronounced sigh) is a term commonly used by parapsychologists to refer to both ESP and psychokinesis taken together. The term was coined by B.P. Weisner and recommended by R.H. Thouless as a term for describing ESP in his 1942 article "The Present Position of Experimental Research into Telepathy and Related Phenomena," (Proceedings of the Society for Psychical Research, 47, part 166, pp. 1-19). J. B Rhine (1948 Reach of the Mind) used the term to refer to both ESP and psychokinesis."
It is not a definition, rather, it is considered according to theory that Psi is the mechanic. Meaning that Psi has to be something, but that leaves an open book ready for interpretation. Psi, in effect, could be anything. I could say that psi was anything.
According to the definition you just gave it it is an unknown mechanic. Something used to make the work of moving an object with your mind easier, or for that matter possible.
Any theory on here does not necessarily have to be a psi theory, because not all things that fit the definition of Psi. You wouldn't call magnetism Psi, even though it does achieve the purpose. Looking at this from a broader perspective than just Parapsychology, one has to understand that nothing is certain. That is how knowledge evolves over time, and people who believe solely in anything physical, especially something that is so vague as Psi, tend to lose their credibility.
I'm trying to make a point here that there may be more than any one effect is causing things to happen. To do something like that is backtracking in knowledge, because you are stating hypothesis as fact, without any experiment, without any real understanding of what may be lying behind the perspectives you have created for yourselves.
There is much more that needs to be determined, before we can accurately say anything about how these things that we are able to do work. If you want people to catch on to psionics, you have to make yourself as credible as possible.
My latest theory, still in development, says that energy is made up of more than just positive and negative, it is a code in which we are learning to harness and control little by little. We had the basics of healing and the like down earlier on, because in involved correcting imbalances. Right now we are the theoretical script kiddies of reality, Taking the coding of our body and projecting it out. But soon, we may end up creating effects on the field of space time itself. We only have limits because the codes of our body have limits, to break these limits, one must learn the code.
granted, it's not tested or proven as of yet. Hell, it's not even complete, but it's something to look at.
Well Said Antisakari. redifine... My point is that you need to keep your mind open to the possibilities out there. Objectively, Psi hasn't been proven to BE anything. "Psi (pronounced sigh) is a term commonly used by parapsychologists to refer to both ESP and psychokinesis taken together. The term was coined by B.P. Weisner and recommended by R.H. Thouless as a term for describing ESP in his 1942 article "The Present Position of Experimental Research into Telepathy and Related Phenomena," (Proceedings of the Society for Psychical Research, 47, part 166, pp. 1-19). J. B Rhine (1948 Reach of the Mind) used the term to refer to both ESP and psychokinesis." It is not a definition, rather, it is considered according to theory that Psi is the mechanic. Meaning that Psi has to be something, but that leaves an open book ready for interpretation. Psi, in effect, could be anything. I could say that psi was anything. According to the definition you just gave it it is an unknown mechanic. Something used to make the work of moving an object with your mind easier, or for that matter possible. Any theory on here does not necessarily have to be a psi theory, because not all things that fit the definition of Psi. You wouldn't call magnetism Psi, even though it does achieve the purpose. Looking at this from a broader perspective than just Parapsychology, one has to understand that nothing is certain. That is how knowledge evolves over time, and people who believe solely in anything physical, especially something that is so vague as Psi, tend to lose their credibility. I'm trying to make a point here that there may be more than any one effect is causing things to happen. To do something like that is backtracking in knowledge, because you are stating hypothesis as fact, without any experiment, without any real understanding of what may be lying behind the perspectives you have created for yourselves. There is much more that needs to be determined, before we can accurately say anything about how these things that we are able to do work. If you want people to catch on to psionics, you have to make yourself as credible as possible. My latest theory, still in development, says that energy is made up of more than just positive and negative, it is a code in which we are learning to harness and control little by little. We had the basics of healing and the like down earlier on, because in involved correcting imbalances. Right now we are the theoretical script kiddies of reality, Taking the coding of our body and projecting it out. But soon, we may end up creating effects on the field of space time itself. We only have limits because the codes of our body have limits, to break these limits, one must learn the code. granted, it's not tested or proven as of yet. Hell, it's not even complete, but it's something to look at.

Posted 4 years, 5 months ago

redefine

but because psi is unknown, explaining psi phenomena in terms of electromagnetism is making electromagnetism part of psi
i understand that we need to be open minded, i'm just pointing out the absurdity of one of your points. mainly "psi is the mechanic behind telepathy and pk, but we have to look to things beyond psi to explain it". as soon as we bring in something else to explain it, that something else becomes part of the explaination and therefore, part of psi.
to divide it up further, without a master-set (if you like, psi in this case) would be to overcomplicate things and make it confusing. my point is whatever we come up with, we should still put under the 'psi' monkier, to make it easier and more understandable (another thing to make us more credible). an example of this is in physics, radioactive decay is made up of a number of different processes, alpha decay, beta decay, and even gamma emission. and they dont always happen together, and they use different processes to achieve different results, but they still all come under the 'radioactive decay' title.
what i'm against is looking outside of 'psi'. because we cant look outside of it if we dont know what it is. and having 'psi' as a blanket term for the mechanic makes everything easier to understand and identify.
my personal theory is similar to yours (in both concept and the proof bit) but its still psi.
but because psi is unknown, explaining psi phenomena in terms of electromagnetism is making electromagnetism part of psi i understand that we need to be open minded, i'm just pointing out the absurdity of one of your points. mainly "psi is the mechanic behind telepathy and pk, but we have to look to things beyond psi to explain it". as soon as we bring in something else to explain it, that something else becomes part of the explaination and therefore, part of psi. to divide it up further, without a master-set (if you like, psi in this case) would be to overcomplicate things and make it confusing. my point is whatever we come up with, we should still put under the 'psi' monkier, to make it easier and more understandable (another thing to make us more credible). an example of this is in physics, radioactive decay is made up of a number of different processes, alpha decay, beta decay, and even gamma emission. and they dont always happen together, and they use different processes to achieve different results, but they still all come under the 'radioactive decay' title. what i'm against is looking outside of 'psi'. because we cant look outside of it if we dont know what it is. and having 'psi' as a blanket term for the mechanic makes everything easier to understand and identify. my personal theory is similar to yours (in both concept and the proof bit) but its still psi.

Posted 4 years, 5 months ago

Linked

@akio
so basicaly your saying we need to find all the variables and factors that allow the unknow process that allows our abilities to function, right?
@akio so basicaly your saying we need to find all the variables and factors that allow the unknow process that allows our abilities to function, right?

Posted 4 years, 5 months ago

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