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Immortality

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SheepKing

Sort of a philisophical question to you:
Do you think if you where 'gifted' with immortality, you would be able to use it usefully? Or that you would squander it?
What are you thoughts on searching for immortality? Would you think it is a gift, or a curse?
Sort of a philisophical question to you: Do you think if you where 'gifted' with immortality, you would be able to use it usefully? Or that you would squander it? What are you thoughts on searching for immortality? Would you think it is a gift, or a curse?

Posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Antisankari

Biological immortality is a fact. (HELA-cells).
Absolute immortality gets trickier.
Biological immortality is a fact. (HELA-cells). Absolute immortality gets trickier.

Posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Sean

Immortality is a cool idea.
Check out this movie: The Man from Earth
The movie itself is really simple - just a bunch of people sitting around, talking, the entire movie. But the main character claims to be an immortal cave man... so the conversation is really interesting to listen to :-).
As for the idea itself - I've never really been interested in achieving immortality, or anything like that. I suppose my belief is that it's just natural to die... so why try to avoid it? It would seem like that if someone were to want to be immortal, it's only because they fear death. I suppose if someone wanted to achieve immortality for more noble reasons, I would be open to the idea - but I would still suspect those noble reasons were just cover-ups for the fear of death :-).
~Sean
Immortality is a cool idea. Check out this movie: [url=http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0756683/]The Man from Earth[/url] The movie itself is really simple - just a bunch of people sitting around, talking, the entire movie. But the main character claims to be an immortal cave man... so the conversation is really interesting to listen to :-). As for the idea itself - I've never really been interested in achieving immortality, or anything like that. I suppose my belief is that it's just natural to die... so why try to avoid it? It would seem like that if someone were to want to be immortal, it's only because they fear death. I suppose if someone wanted to achieve immortality for more noble reasons, I would be open to the idea - but I would still suspect those noble reasons were just cover-ups for the fear of death :-). ~Sean

Posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Vimick

thats a good movie sean pretty interesting.
i for one would think being immortal would be nice to the extent I would really like the see how our civilizations play out what new technology we come up with and any new discoveries. itd be nice to see.
thats a good movie sean pretty interesting. i for one would think being immortal would be nice to the extent I would really like the see how our civilizations play out what new technology we come up with and any new discoveries. itd be nice to see.

Posted 4 years, 6 months ago

DigGil

Someone once said (something like that) "Live like if you go to die tomorrow and learn like if you live forever".
Someone once said (something like that) "Live like if you go to die tomorrow and learn like if you live forever".

Posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Antisankari

Based on that, lerning to live will take a lifetime. ^^
Based on that, lerning to live will take a lifetime. ^^

Posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Anonymous Dark

Yes and no. If I were immortal, I would have so much time to learn and see all these things that I couldn't learn in one lifeitme--I could become an accomplished writer, learn to play 24 instruments, speak 50 languages, and get to see where our civilization is in 500 years...yet, there are downsides. You make friends, fall in love, and time and time again everyone you know dies while you remain the same. It could make you wish you were dead...and another thing; if you're immortal, you'll always be stuck in this world. You'll never know what lies beyond life, or if anything does lie there at all, so...meh. Immortality would have its pros and cons, like anything else.
Yes and no. If I were immortal, I would have so much time to learn and see all these things that I couldn't learn in one lifeitme--I could become an accomplished writer, learn to play 24 instruments, speak 50 languages, and get to see where our civilization is in 500 years...yet, there are downsides. You make friends, fall in love, and time and time again everyone you know dies while you remain the same. It could make you wish you were dead...and another thing; if you're immortal, you'll always be stuck in this world. You'll never know what lies beyond life, or if anything does lie there at all, so...meh. Immortality would have its pros and cons, like anything else.

Posted 4 years, 6 months ago

bd333

If you were immortal and could feel pain, now that would suck. But I guess it would be cool to see what our civilization accomplishes.
--BD
If you were immortal and could feel pain, now that would suck. But I guess it would be cool to see what our civilization accomplishes. --BD

Posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Dash

a gift and a curse..
if you were immortal wouldn't you look like a 247 year old?
well i think i'd half make use of immortality.. learn casually but stop for fun along the way.. kinda like how i live now..
heres hoping i live forever anyway..
my belief is that it's just natural to die
isnt that a duality? .. probably not.. btw nice movie.. i always wondered what happened to grandpa finnerty =]
a gift and a curse.. if you were immortal wouldn't you look like a 247 year old? well i think i'd half make use of immortality.. learn casually but stop for fun along the way.. kinda like how i live now.. heres hoping i live forever anyway.. [quote] my belief is that it's just natural to die [/quote] isnt that a duality? .. probably not.. btw nice movie.. i always wondered what happened to grandpa finnerty =]

Posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Akio

Agreed, Any form of Immortality would be both a gift and a curse. Just the Idea of not being able to die.
Besides, To be truely alive one must also be able to die at any moment. If one were to be immortal, there would be no balance of death for that person and he/she would continually try to restore the balance. The only way to be immortal would be to make up for the balance of death. In movies they tend to make the immortal either a balancer of the world. In books they ussually make it so someone has to die in their place for all eternity, both would work.
Besides, by the same understanding, to have this true immortality, you wouldn't be able to advance any more from the point you became immortal, because every essence of your being, good and bad, would stay alive for eternity.
In the spiritual sense we have today, our concience is immortal. There are tons of theories behind it, the one I favor involves your concience being energy.
in Reality everything is immortal, and therefore nothing is Immortal. Duality? Not by my understanding of the term.
______________________________________________________________________________________
If I were Immortal I could not be alive, that is my conclusion.
If I were to be immortal, I would probably livemy life only to keep the balance. I would the be confronted by some ignorant person of Justice who would try t stop me, and end up killing me which would then truely restore balance to the world... and then we have a movie ^_^.
The message I live by, "Don't take life to seriously, cause you'll never get out of it alive."
Agreed, Any form of Immortality would be both a gift and a curse. Just the Idea of not being able to die. Besides, To be truely alive one must also be able to die at any moment. If one were to be immortal, there would be no balance of death for that person and he/she would continually try to restore the balance. The only way to be immortal would be to make up for the balance of death. In movies they tend to make the immortal either a balancer of the world. In books they ussually make it so someone has to die in their place for all eternity, both would work. Besides, by the same understanding, to have this true immortality, you wouldn't be able to advance any more from the point you became immortal, because every essence of your being, good and bad, would stay alive for eternity. In the spiritual sense we have today, our concience is immortal. There are tons of theories behind it, the one I favor involves your concience being energy. in Reality everything is immortal, and therefore nothing is Immortal. Duality? Not by my understanding of the term. ______________________________________________________________________________________ If I were Immortal I could not be alive, that is my conclusion. If I were to be immortal, I would probably livemy life only to keep the balance. I would the be confronted by some ignorant person of Justice who would try t stop me, and end up killing me which would then truely restore balance to the world... and then we have a movie ^_^. The message I live by, "Don't take life to seriously, cause you'll never get out of it alive."

Posted 4 years, 6 months ago

SheepKing

I've been thinking about immortality a lot lately. Not for myself, mind you, just about the idea of it. Thinking about if someone was immortal how things would start to appear over time.
You start off in life (as the immortal mind you) as everyone else, but then at your bodies peak you start to notice the people around you growing older. At a certain point all of your immediate family, and all of the first set of friends you made have died; And in their place lie their children, and your nephews and neices and what not. Had you had a wife and kids, they too have died and been 'replaced' by more family.
At a certain point you understand that you can't die. For some time you are filled with the sorrow of losing all of the ones you love and the realization that anyone you will ever meet; and anyone you will ever fall in love with will die, along with any children you have. During the beginning of your life you viewed death with the equal fear that others have felt for it. But overtime that fear is probably replaced with the desire to meet death. I'd imagine at one point you would view death as a release from the pain of the world as you see man making the same mistakes over and over again in life. You view from the eyes of someone who has lived hundreds of lives and see mans weakness, his failures, and his own self-brainwashing ideals. All of this wrapped up in the guise of technological advancement.
Knowing you would live forever; Would you really want to dedicate eternity to 'knowledge' and 'learning'?
I've been thinking about immortality a lot lately. Not for myself, mind you, just about the idea of it. Thinking about if someone was immortal how things would start to appear over time. You start off in life (as the immortal mind you) as everyone else, but then at your bodies peak you start to notice the people around you growing older. At a certain point all of your immediate family, and all of the first set of friends you made have died; And in their place lie their children, and your nephews and neices and what not. Had you had a wife and kids, they too have died and been 'replaced' by more family. At a certain point you understand that you can't die. For some time you are filled with the sorrow of losing all of the ones you love and the realization that anyone you will ever meet; and anyone you will ever fall in love with will die, along with any children you have. During the beginning of your life you viewed death with the equal fear that others have felt for it. But overtime that fear is probably replaced with the desire to meet death. I'd imagine at one point you would view death as a release from the pain of the world as you see man making the same mistakes over and over again in life. You view from the eyes of someone who has lived hundreds of lives and see mans weakness, his failures, and his own self-brainwashing ideals. All of this wrapped up in the guise of technological advancement. Knowing you would live forever; Would you really want to dedicate eternity to 'knowledge' and 'learning'?

Posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Akio

That's acctually a very deep thought... I think that rather than dedicate oneself to knowledge and learning, but rather they would dedicate life to understanding. In all reality I think that you really don't die. Your body does, If one could preserve the brain for all eternity, if we could only preserve our idea's on a type of backup, you would in all essence escape death.
This is the Idea behind the creature known as a Lich in the Dungeons & Dragons games. In essence they transfer their soul (thoughts, ideas, personality, etc.) and transfer it into another location that will sustain forever, such as a crystal. The only way to beat the Lich is to destroy the object and then kill the body.
To put it into modern terms. If we were to become modern day lichs, immortals. all we have to do is create regular backups of our minds, and when we die, we set it up so that all the "files" transfer into a new brains format. Withthis technique, we could, in essence, live forever. Without upsetting the balance. I feel that, if it wasn't for human stupidity, we may have reached this point by now.
Even more, If human cloning were perfected, we could create new bodies for ourselves, without all the moral issues of killing one to save another, because by the majority of the world's religeon we would consider these bodies as Soul-less.
It's a complicated subject to look apon, but we are, albiet slowely, making our way there, esspecially with technogy being able to read brainwaves.
That's acctually a very deep thought... I think that rather than dedicate oneself to knowledge and learning, but rather they would dedicate life to understanding. In all reality I think that you really don't die. Your body does, If one could preserve the brain for all eternity, if we could only preserve our idea's on a type of backup, you would in all essence escape death. This is the Idea behind the creature known as a Lich in the Dungeons & Dragons games. In essence they transfer their soul (thoughts, ideas, personality, etc.) and transfer it into another location that will sustain forever, such as a crystal. The only way to beat the Lich is to destroy the object and then kill the body. To put it into modern terms. If we were to become modern day lichs, immortals. all we have to do is create regular backups of our minds, and when we die, we set it up so that all the "files" transfer into a new brains format. Withthis technique, we could, in essence, live forever. Without upsetting the balance. I feel that, if it wasn't for human stupidity, we may have reached this point by now. Even more, If human cloning were perfected, we could create new bodies for ourselves, without all the moral issues of killing one to save another, because by the majority of the world's religeon we would consider these bodies as Soul-less. It's a complicated subject to look apon, but we are, albiet slowely, making our way there, esspecially with technogy being able to read brainwaves.

Posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Zectra

I don't believe in death.
I don't believe in death.

Posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Akio

how so? could you expand on it for us Zectra?
how so? could you expand on it for us Zectra?

Posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Jusseppe

Well that's funny because I don't believe in gravity. =p
Well that's funny because I don't believe in gravity. =p

Last edited by Jusseppe, 4 years, 6 months ago
Posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Zectra

Jusseppe~ Wassup brothah! We should get together sometime ^_^
Kidding.
I was more or less making a joke out of boredom in the middle of the night.
But if I was to be serious, I believe in immortality, because I don't believe in limits.
If you believe your way is the only way or that there's no possibility just because you believe their isn't or because it doesn't fit your laws, then I consider you arrogant and ignorant.
Everything is possible, you just have to find a way to do it.
Even if someone "proves" something is impossible, that only means that it's impossible according to the method and laws they used.
After all, Mathematical comparison:
1+3 can not equal 5, but 2.5 + 2.5 can; arriving at the same desired destination using a different method.
Anyone who believes that 1 and 3 are law and can not be broken, is an idiot. And anyone who condemns someone else's approach just because it doesn't fit their idea of life, is arrogant.
(just killing any possible debating over what I said)
That could be reversed though.. because you could even say things such as science it's self has a possibility of being completely wrong.
If the "Real" destination is 6, and the "real" answer is 1 + 2 + 3,
but science uses is using 5 + 2 - 11 + 10, then it LOOKS right, because it fits, but really it's just an equation that explains the definition; that doesn't mean it's the right equation.. And we all know that different equations can be manipulated differently; Where one limits, another doesn't.
ah but anyway, I got way off topic and ranted a little. I'll see ya later.
(If you actually interpreted everything the way I meant you too, good show.)
Jusseppe~ Wassup brothah! We should get together sometime ^_^ Kidding. I was more or less making a joke out of boredom in the middle of the night. But if I was to be serious, I believe in immortality, because I don't believe in limits. If you believe your way is the only way or that there's no possibility just because you believe their isn't or because it doesn't fit your laws, then I consider you arrogant and ignorant. Everything is possible, you just have to find a way to do it. Even if someone "proves" something is impossible, that only means that it's impossible according to the method and laws they used. After all, Mathematical comparison: 1+3 can not equal 5, but 2.5 + 2.5 can; arriving at the same desired destination using a different method. Anyone who believes that 1 and 3 are law and can not be broken, is an idiot. And anyone who condemns someone else's approach just because it doesn't fit their idea of life, is arrogant. (just killing any possible debating over what I said) That could be reversed though.. because you could even say things such as science it's self has a possibility of being completely wrong. If the "Real" destination is 6, and the "real" answer is 1 + 2 + 3, but science uses is using 5 + 2 - 11 + 10, then it LOOKS right, because it fits, but really it's just an equation that explains the definition; that doesn't mean it's the right equation.. And we all know that different equations can be manipulated differently; Where one limits, another doesn't. ah but anyway, I got way off topic and ranted a little. I'll see ya later. (If you actually interpreted everything the way I meant you too, good show.)

Posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Antisankari

Mostly our understanding and ways of handling natural numbers come from Giuseppe Peano's axioms, that define properties of group Z+.
Somewhere around his lifetime (1858 - 1932) he defined such concepts as 1+1 = 2 in a formal fashion.
Another contributor was Gerhard Gentzen (1909-1945).
Some laws are needed in order to maintain coherense in mathematical system.
First DeMorgans law could be rephrased as:
A\(B U C) equals (A\B) I (A\C)
A,B and C being groups
\ being difference? (Not exactly aware of the english world, not division anyway...)
U being Union.
I being Intersection.
All I know is that should I fail to derive calculations based on learned axioms in the coming exam, I aint getting a grade.
Hard to choose really... Passing idiot or a failing genius.
But someone actually majoring math might contribute to this conversation better.
Hallowed is the Hot Dog!
Mostly our understanding and ways of handling natural numbers come from Giuseppe Peano's axioms, that define properties of group Z+. Somewhere around his lifetime (1858 - 1932) he defined such concepts as 1+1 = 2 in a formal fashion. Another contributor was Gerhard Gentzen (1909-1945). Some laws are needed in order to maintain coherense in mathematical system. First DeMorgans law could be rephrased as: A\(B U C) equals (A\B) I (A\C) A,B and C being groups \ being difference? (Not exactly aware of the english world, not division anyway...) U being Union. I being Intersection. All I know is that should I fail to derive calculations based on learned axioms in the coming exam, I aint getting a grade. Hard to choose really... Passing idiot or a failing genius. But someone actually majoring math might contribute to this conversation better. Hallowed is the Hot Dog!

Last edited by Antisankari, 4 years, 6 months ago
Posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Zectra

Sigh... I think you completely missed the point of what I said.
"All I know is that should I fail to derive calculations based on learned axioms in the coming exam, I ain't getting a grade. "
Yeah, I agree, of course you have to learn the system to function in a world that calls it law. You have to learn science to be accepted among scientists and you have to learn the religion to be accepted among a specific sect.
But every group of people who say "The world is this way! And every one else is wrong!"
Is no different from a religion. Science, atheist, etc etc, are all included in that. Some are just more complex than other, and thus persuade more people.
You can prove something in the religious world that won't work in the science world, and you can prove something in the Psionic world that won't work in the science world,
you can prove something in the western world that would work in the eastern, visa versa, and all because they run off of different accepted norms and laws.
But to be stuck to those laws and say that everything else is wrong just because you're too arrogant to believe there's a -different- way to do something outside of your laws, is idiotic and blind.
Also, dedicating yourself to a small portion of a message for the purpose of demonstrating your inflated ego rather than actually looking at the deeper meaning and getting something out of it is just simply trivial and self damaging.
Good day.
Sigh... I think you completely missed the point of what I said. "All I know is that should I fail to derive calculations based on learned axioms in the coming exam, I ain't getting a grade. " Yeah, I agree, of course you have to learn the system to function in a world that calls it law. You have to learn science to be accepted among scientists and you have to learn the religion to be accepted among a specific sect. But every group of people who say "The world is this way! And every one else is wrong!" Is no different from a religion. Science, atheist, etc etc, are all included in that. Some are just more complex than other, and thus persuade more people. You can prove something in the religious world that won't work in the science world, and you can prove something in the Psionic world that won't work in the science world, you can prove something in the western world that would work in the eastern, visa versa, and all because they run off of different accepted norms and laws. But to be stuck to those laws and say that everything else is wrong just because you're too arrogant to believe there's a -different- way to do something outside of your laws, is idiotic and blind. Also, dedicating yourself to a small portion of a message for the purpose of demonstrating your inflated ego rather than actually looking at the deeper meaning and getting something out of it is just simply trivial and self damaging. Good day.

Posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Antisankari

Demonstrating ego could be a way of boosting it.
If boosting ego can be translated as:
boost:
# hike: increase; "The landlord hiked up the rents"
# give a boost to; be beneficial to; "The tax cut will boost the economy"
And ego is part of myself.
So being beneficial to my ego would be beneficial to me, so it would not be self damaging.
Demonstrating ego could be a way of boosting it. If boosting ego can be translated as: boost: # hike: increase; "The landlord hiked up the rents" # give a boost to; be beneficial to; "The tax cut will boost the economy" And ego is part of myself. So being beneficial to my ego would be beneficial to me, so it would not be self damaging.

Posted 4 years, 6 months ago

Akio

I think the best way to discribe it is this.
"Nothing is easy, but if it's difficult, you're doing it wrong."
The only law I see that has no exceptions is the law of balance. In any case what so ever.
In any equation, for it to be an equation, it must follow the laws of balance.
2+2=4 because two two's are equivilent to one four. The only thing that has no contradictions is balance. With that said, I can also point out that every other law we make in this world has been based on balance, and then branched off. To put it simply, balance is everything.
I think the best way to discribe it is this. "Nothing is easy, but if it's difficult, you're doing it wrong." The only law I see that has no exceptions is the law of balance. In any case what so ever. In any equation, for it to be an equation, it must follow the laws of balance. 2+2=4 because two two's are equivilent to one four. The only thing that has no contradictions is balance. With that said, I can also point out that every other law we make in this world has been based on balance, and then branched off. To put it simply, balance is everything.

Last edited by Akio, 4 years, 6 months ago
Posted 4 years, 6 months ago

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