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February 5th, 2009 by Sean Conceptualization

Steve Pavlina wrote an article on the 11:11 phenomenon.

Overall, I liked it. I like the message, and I found myself nodding a lot during the article.

However :-). There is still a glaring problem. It’s not a problem with Steve or anything, it’s a problem with this reality I see. Maybe those who read this can share their thoughts.

Steve’s answer to 11:11 is that it’s basically a way to break down belief systems, and open people up to new understandings of reality. Ok, I get it, sounds good. The problem I have is this idea of “achievement”. All throughout New Age and New New Age beliefs, is this idea of expanding your consciousness, gaining a better understanding, becoming a better person, etc. It’s about progress. It’s about moving up the ladder of awareness.

But hidden in that notion, is that where you currently are now is incorrect. You hold incorrect ideas, and need to upgrade them with more correct ideas. For example, from Steve’s perspective, an incorrect belief might be that reality is objective. A more correct belief is that reality is subjective, and this subjectiveness creates an illusion of objectivity. Therefore, it’s better to hold the refined “subjective” belief, instead of the normal “objective” one.

We can pick any idea, really. For example, if you believe that Zeus throws lightning from the sky, then I would disagree. A more correct belief would be the current scientific understanding of lightning (electrons, charge, etc).

Where I run into a problem is: how can I say that one belief is better than another? How can I say one belief is more correct?

If I reject an idea, then I reject reality, because that idea has been created in reality. If our purpose is to upgrade our beliefs ad nauseam, then that assumes we aren’t a part of reality, but instead floating outside of it, choosing which ideas to keep, and which to discard. Our reality is one - therefore, our (incorrect) beliefs have arisen from this reality, and reside inside this reality.

If I reject a belief as false, then I reject that reality has given rise to the belief. In order to accept reality, I must accept that the belief’s existence is correct.

However, if I accept that a belief’s existence is correct, then there is no reason to strive to upgrade my beliefs! Progress is therefore an illusion!

How can I say that progress is an illusion, though? Wouldn’t it be better for everyone to be fed, than have people starve to death? If I reject progress, then I must accept both equally.

Consciousness and beliefs exist inside of reality. Therefore, I must accept their existence in order to accept reality. If reality says that it’s legal to hold an incorrect belief, then I have no authority to strive for correct beliefs. This idea of “striving” or “progress” is part of the mind - it is not part of reality. Therefore, I must accept morally disgusting events - like starvation. The only saving grace is to reject starvation from a human stand point - not a reality one. So it is the human mind that strives for progress (however that individual human defines that word). The human mind is what tells me starvation is bad, and that we need to strive. Reality couldn’t care less, either way. Strive, don’t strive… succeed, fail… 4 million years of humanity, 11 billion years of floating gas clouds… it’s all the same to reality.

Conceptualization is the error. “Progress” is the act of favoring one illusion over another. Not only is the mind the source of all illusion, it can create only illusion. QED.

This entry was posted on Thursday, February 5th, 2009 at 12:33 pm and is filed under Philosophy, Personal Development, Belief Systems. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.

### 16 Responses to “Conceptualization”

1. Subliminal Says:
   February 5th, 2009 at 8:19 pm

   But you already answered your own questions. Reality IS subjective. It differs from person to person, although some of us may share the same beliefs and whatnot, we never have precisely the same reality.

   Who cares what these things mean to other people. What do they mean to YOU? Cut everyone out of the picture for a moment. Otherwise you’re going to be caught in a circular argument with yourself.

2. X-Master Says:
   February 6th, 2009 at 4:15 pm

   That is true, what does it all mean to you personally? Why should it matter what everyone else believes. Unfortunetly, others cannot see it that way, because they want you to believe their version of reality is correct and your’s is wrong.

3. ClearVision Says:
   February 6th, 2009 at 5:27 pm

   Why it matters Xmaster? Because other people DO affect you. Sean’s beliefs affect you. You’re reading this site, aren’t you? Therefore you are, even if only ever so slightly, affected by this site’s influence. Now, of course, you may claim not to agree with those beliefs. But a small part of your memory will keep this in mind, and when the time comes, you will remember - and possibly change your mind at a later time.
   But the mere memory or knowledge of a belief does affect you. It affects your thinking patterns, the way you behave towards others, the way your mind ticks. You may not believe in the existence of a gigantic spaghetti monster, but the beliefs of others makes it real in your mind. The concept becomes a memory, voluntarily or not.

4. X-Master Says:
   February 7th, 2009 at 12:51 pm

   Well I only meant that people should be allowed to believe as they choose, instead of having something imposed forcibly upon them by someone else who views theirs as the only ‘correct’ version of reality.

5. redefine Says:
   February 8th, 2009 at 10:23 pm

   “If I reject a belief as false, then I reject that reality has given rise to the belief. In order to accept reality, I must accept that the belief’s existence is correct.

   However, if I accept that a belief’s existence is correct, then there is no reason to strive to upgrade my beliefs! Progress is therefore an illusion!”

   is there a difference between accepting the existence of a belief, and accepting the belief as true.

   if there is, progress is rejecting untrue beliefs, but still acknowleging them as beliefs that people believe in this reality, to accept something exists, you dont have to accept that it is right, only that it exists. for example, i can accept that christians believe in a specific god. i can accept that that belief exists without believing in it myself, but it is different to say i accept that belief is true.

6. Sean Says:
   February 9th, 2009 at 2:43 am

   redefine: Yes, I see exactly what you’re saying. What I’m saying is slightly different than that, though I realize my above post doesn’t make it clear.

   What I’m saying is that all beliefs are inherently untrue, because this idea of “I believe this or that” is dependent on separation of self from reality. Since self is not separate from reality, it doesn’t make sense to pretend as if you hold on to a belief, or that you let go of a belief… because the “you” that does the holding or letting go doesn’t exist to do so.

   See, in accepting that the Christian’s belief exists, even though you disagree with it… the act of “disagreement” implies separation. *They* hold this belief, but *I* hold a better belief. This distinction pre-supposes that the *I* exists outside of reality, picking and choosing which beliefs are better to hold on to.

   I’m not saying that any of this is wrong, or anything like that. What I’m saying is that “progress” isn’t really progress. Progress doesn’t exist. Please, continue to strive for your arbitrary definition of progress - I know I’ll continue to strive for mine! But it’s still an illusion, conjured up by the mind.

7. Psikillion Says:
   February 9th, 2009 at 11:07 am

   Personally I have to disagree with you on what you say about beliefs in your post above mine, Sean. There are many things that we still do not know; our purpose in life, an afterlife or nothing, whether God exists or not, and the list can go on to infinity. These are unknown, so most people decide whether they think a certain belief is true because they need something tenable to hold on to. Also each person has their own beliefs based on how they perceive and interact with reality.

   People will knock heads, but because they knock heads does not mean that everything they say is false. I used to be a determinist, until I took a Philosophy 101 course over the month of January. In that course I realized that there has to be some sort of free will, but there were some pieces of determinism that have to exist as well. How they can fit together I do not know, but I believe that a creator God has the knowledge of how these things can coexist. You may argue about whether a creator God exists or not, but that is alright because only I can change my beliefs and perceptions of reality.

8. redefine Says:
   February 9th, 2009 at 10:40 pm

   i see better what your saying now, but i’m still not convinced.

   yes, beliefs do imply a separation from the self and the belief, but does that really matter? the way i see it, it only matters if the self is necesary for that belief to be true. if i have a belief about the way the world works, and it happens to be true, it will be true weather i am around or not, so does it matter if i am separating the self from the belief, when the belief is independent of the self?

   but its interesting, striving for ‘true’ beliefs is not a necesary part of existence. i can believe whatever was taught to me first, and i would be able to continue to exist weather those things are true or not (within reason. i cannot survive with incorrect beliefs about survival skills). weather i believe in god or not, or weather i conform to latest beliefs in quantum mechanics or not, it has no impact on my ultimate survival.

   so maybe progress does exist, and there are ‘better’ beliefs in terms of truth, but it is not ‘necesary’

9. SheepKing Says:
   February 11th, 2009 at 11:12 pm

   What is QED?

10. PotentiaL Says:
    February 11th, 2009 at 11:37 pm

    The illusion of time rears it ugly head.

11. Steven Says:
    February 14th, 2009 at 3:54 am

    If it’s about progressing or such things, I agree it suggests the current state is less or incorrect. This is a function of duality. Dualities exist in a subjective sense but not in an objective sense. The universe is objective, subjectified by the mind, colored by our culture, beliefs, etc, based on our experiences. I would suggest that it comes down to experience, which implies some form/function of consciousness in which to experience. What is it that we are to experience? Universal Truth, not tainted by subjectivity as best can be done. Is it not consciousness that gives rise to duality? Yes it is. Then how does one experience Truth objectively? The mind has to be taken from reality, made devoid of stimuli as much as possible, while maintaining awareness. You simply can not get there from here. The consciousness needs to be altered, less it maintain the same subjective, dualistic views.

12. Niushirra Says:
    February 27th, 2009 at 6:54 pm

    “A more correct belief is that reality is subjective, and this subjectiveness creates an illusion of objectivity.”

    A really pivotal point to be begging the question on…

13. Psikillion Says:
    March 1st, 2009 at 12:25 am

    Could it be possible that even though reality is subjective there could be some objectivity?

    Because if we perceive everything as subjective, how do we know that objectivity does/does not exist?

14. kiepmad Says:
    March 4th, 2009 at 4:42 am

    QED: Quod erat demonstandum, what was to be proved.

    “If I reject an idea, then I reject reality, because that idea has been created in reality.”

    WTF. Take a break, that’s the stupidest thing I read today.
    I can reject the content of an idea, but still can I accept, that reality has born this idea. This works, for objective and subjective thought patterns.

    I don’t even need to judge the idea. I can just acknowledge its existence. This is of course not practicle, accept if you are some sort of buddhist.

    This discussion is very philosophical, but I get the feeling, that, like with most theoretical abstractations, its highly inpractical.

    The view of a reality is just a tool needed to grasp what surrounds us. This tool is created and adapted by ideas we have about how stuff works. And progress is definded by how good this tool works, ie. how much it corresponds to what seems to happen arround us and in what sense it makes us comfortable with the life we are living.

    This also explains the existence of religion (explaining the inexplainable), the confrontation between religion and science, and the emergence of science as a quasi-religion.

    So in fact, reality is subjective. Even Kant proved it, more than 200 years ago.

    And if we reject an idea, it’s because it hinders us from seeing reality in the most practical way, based on our expectations and beliefs.

    The question that arises now is of course, how to measure progress, individually and collectively. I don’t know and give it back to you.

    Disclaimer:
    That’s just the crap in my head. please prove me wrong.

15. Float Says:
    April 13th, 2009 at 8:46 pm

    Wow, I had no idea you posted this! kind of ironic. I recently wrote about this after I came across Steve’s post. That’s pretty funny. I agree with you here though, which is what makes me stumbling across this post so entertaining to me.

16. GoldenJoe Says:
    April 19th, 2009 at 12:18 am

    Isn’t it a waste of energy to worry about whether reality, beliefs, thoughts, etc are real or not? All known life forms exhibit behavior that appears to be designed to lead to some sort of progress, such as evolution. Obviously, not all evolutionary steps have been effective, or “correct”. So what, then? Does this mean that it is pointless to try, or that there is no inherent value in striving for our own evolution? Absolutely not. It may be impossible for us to verify reality as we are, but the only way we will have a chance at determining what is true is to push forward and work towards progress, however we choose to define it.

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