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Psi? The Aether? Or Just pure and Simple Energy?

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Akio

I was wondering, when we make our Psi-balls, manipulate things, use telepathy, what is this really? Long ago, we Used to Call this energy field that Surrounds us the Aether, a force that was essentially the cause of all motion. But When Albert Einstien's theories came to light, we dismissed the Aether, which was just a form of chaos, and proved it was acctually a Science, complex and accurate. with energy as the source. However, later in Albert Einstien's life, Quantum Physics became the newest topic of discussion. This dictated everything that was againt albert Einstiens beliefs, because it said that the subatomic level was dictated by chaos, which he believed was an'unatural' thing. Now, today, we are referring to what people would call the Aether before Einstiens time. I feel that we are backtracking, but I don't feel that anything said is flat out wrong. The idea is that Chaos Rules order, and Chaos is what people have called magic in order to bring order to it, harness and control it. to live.
Now, I don't feel that Einstien was wrong, so I have come to the conclusion that this Chaos found at the subatomic level is just another form of order. Unfortunately, it is also my belief that any Order is open to manipulation. with every action we make, every wave of thought, everything. It's all an influence on this order, and with all of the influences we interpret it as a form of Chaos. The only thing I havent figured out is how exactly can we measure these things, what is the formula we can use to figure out how this manipulation happens?
This, My Friends, People I've known for all but 5 minutes of my Life, which is both nothing and everything to me, This is what I think to be the Next Frontier to cover, ad possibly the final.
If my theories are correct, it is possible that I can put an explination to Psychic abilities. Explain things once dismissed by scientists as impossible.
my goal is to Prove Psychic abilities as a reality and open up a new doorway into Discovery, and I have devoted my life to this, it's my Dream, My Goal, and my Very own Scientific Revolution.
So, Any thoughts? I'd like to hear as much as possible ^_^
I was wondering, when we make our Psi-balls, manipulate things, use telepathy, what is this really? Long ago, we Used to Call this energy field that Surrounds us the Aether, a force that was essentially the cause of all motion. But When Albert Einstien's theories came to light, we dismissed the Aether, which was just a form of chaos, and proved it was acctually a Science, complex and accurate. with energy as the source. However, later in Albert Einstien's life, Quantum Physics became the newest topic of discussion. This dictated everything that was againt albert Einstiens beliefs, because it said that the subatomic level was dictated by chaos, which he believed was an'unatural' thing. Now, today, we are referring to what people would call the Aether before Einstiens time. I feel that we are backtracking, but I don't feel that anything said is flat out wrong. The idea is that Chaos Rules order, and Chaos is what people have called magic in order to bring order to it, harness and control it. to live. Now, I don't feel that Einstien was wrong, so I have come to the conclusion that this Chaos found at the subatomic level is just another form of order. Unfortunately, it is also my belief that any Order is open to manipulation. with every action we make, every wave of thought, everything. It's all an influence on this order, and with all of the influences we interpret it as a form of Chaos. The only thing I havent figured out is how exactly can we measure these things, what is the formula we can use to figure out how this manipulation happens? This, My Friends, People I've known for all but 5 minutes of my Life, which is both nothing and everything to me, This is what I think to be the Next Frontier to cover, ad possibly the final. If my theories are correct, it is possible that I can put an explination to Psychic abilities. Explain things once dismissed by scientists as impossible. my goal is to Prove Psychic abilities as a reality and open up a new doorway into Discovery, and I have devoted my life to this, it's my Dream, My Goal, and my Very own Scientific Revolution. So, Any thoughts? I'd like to hear as much as possible ^_^

Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

ErikJDurwoodII

Before I studied psionics, I studied the Aether. It was my Aether research that led me to psionics.
Before I studied psionics, I studied the Aether. It was my Aether research that led me to psionics.

Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

Akio

hmm.. what do you feel are the differences, or the simmilarities between the Aether and Psionics that you have noticed?
My theory is that the Aether... Psi... It's All basically Quantum Physics, but I haven't gotten any other people's oppinions on this... Anything on this that you've thought about?
hmm.. what do you feel are the differences, or the simmilarities between the Aether and Psionics that you have noticed? My theory is that the Aether... Psi... It's All basically Quantum Physics, but I haven't gotten any other people's oppinions on this... Anything on this that you've thought about?

Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

Antisankari

It is not hard to prove psionic effects.
But alas : "You can take your camel to a water bucket but you cannot make him to drink."
PEAR institute got some scientifically meaningful results but as long as nobody is willing to listen, the proving might prove itself difficult. Like Sun-Earth paradigm during middle-ages.
It is not hard to prove psionic effects. But alas : "You can take your camel to a water bucket but you cannot make him to drink." PEAR institute got some scientifically meaningful results but as long as nobody is willing to listen, the proving might prove itself difficult. Like Sun-Earth paradigm during middle-ages.

Last edited by Antisankari, 4 years, 8 months ago
Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

DigGil

Jack Houck (www.jackhouck.com) has good theories on how 'Paranormal' phenomena works.
From what I know there are three kinds of stuff called 'Aether' you might be confusing:
1-Other name for the gas "nitrous oxide" also called "laughing gas".
2-When the light was considered like a 'mechanical' wave (like sound), waves need a material environment to propagate. Some phisist called it aether.
3-Before "Psi" there was the "aether", a way to name the "energies" used in psychic abillities.
The 'Aether' number 2 doesn't exist and that was proven by Albert Einstein. The 'Aether' number 3 and 1 still exist, but nº 3 have a different name. "Aether" cames from greek and means "pure air", that makes the word ambiguos.
About your theory, I think Chaos theory is wrong, but there is so much variables, that is difficult to predict what will happen. It's like Einstein said "God don't play with dice".
Jack Houck (www.jackhouck.com) has good theories on how 'Paranormal' phenomena works. From what I know there are three kinds of stuff called 'Aether' you might be confusing: 1-Other name for the gas "nitrous oxide" also called "laughing gas". 2-When the light was considered like a 'mechanical' wave (like sound), waves need a material environment to propagate. Some phisist called it aether. 3-Before "Psi" there was the "aether", a way to name the "energies" used in psychic abillities. The 'Aether' number 2 doesn't exist and that was proven by Albert Einstein. The 'Aether' number 3 and 1 still exist, but nº 3 have a different name. "Aether" cames from greek and means "pure air", that makes the word ambiguos. About your theory, I think Chaos theory is wrong, but there is so much variables, that is difficult to predict what will happen. It's like Einstein said "God don't play with dice".

Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

NewAgeAlchemist

There have been a number of mythologies with a spiritual energy, they were the basis from which the force in star wars was imagined. I think it might be easier for you to learn Chinese or Japanese and study abroad as they are more open to the idea of spiritual energy as a scienctific event.
Quantum Theory meets Chi (5 minutes):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG8pGSxNrZ8
Ki (Japanese), video makes reference to a difference with Chi but I've never really see it expanded on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9rl1EvJX_k
There have been a number of mythologies with a [url=http://questiocunctus.com/?p=49]spiritual energy[/url], they were the basis from which the force in star wars was imagined. I think it might be easier for you to learn Chinese or Japanese and study abroad as they are more open to the idea of spiritual energy as a scienctific event. Quantum Theory meets Chi (5 minutes): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG8pGSxNrZ8 Ki (Japanese), video makes reference to a difference with Chi but I've never really see it expanded on. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9rl1EvJX_k

Last edited by NewAgeAlchemist, 4 years, 8 months ago
Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

keen31

that kiai clip is from a show that aired on BBC called Mind, Body and Kick Ass Moves (or it was from the follow up series Mind, Body and Kick Ass Miracles).
Both were good shows, the latter of which focused mainly on unbelievable claims and secret martial arts that defied what one would normally think possible of the human body.
if youre interested in that kind of thing (which i am, very much) id recommend hunting down the videos. take them with a grain of salt like anything, but it is pretty good footage of things you may have heard of in myth or story, only performed for real.
that kiai clip is from a show that aired on BBC called Mind, Body and Kick Ass Moves (or it was from the follow up series Mind, Body and Kick Ass Miracles). Both were good shows, the latter of which focused mainly on unbelievable claims and secret martial arts that defied what one would normally think possible of the human body. if youre interested in that kind of thing (which i am, very much) id recommend hunting down the videos. take them with a grain of salt like anything, but it is pretty good footage of things you may have heard of in myth or story, only performed for real.

Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

ErikJDurwoodII

DigGil:
The gas is spelled "ether" never aether.
Secondly, the Aether concept, referred to as the "Luminiferous Aether" was originally the logically assumed medium for which light (and all energy) propagated. Indeed in the early 1900's, physicists including Einstein refined our theories to exclude the need for the Aether. But note the wording. The Aether was never disproved.
Einstein himself said in the 1920 paper "Aether and the Theory of Relativity" -- "More careful reflection teaches us, however, that the special theory of relativity does not compel us to deny ether." and "To deny the ether is ultimately to assume that empty space has no physical qualities whatever".
It served its purpose by giving us a "fundamental platform" and we grew from that. Interestingly enough, once wave/particle duality was understood, the role of the Aether changed. It being a horribly archaic concept in the modern world, we were quick to dismiss the term. But as we delved deeper into our understanding, we once again saw the need for an "all-pervading fundamental energy" from which reality is supported. Concepts like "the Medium, Zero-Point Energy and the active vacuum" exist today calling forth energy from the "time-domain." Everywhere you look in quantum mechanics, you see reference to scalars and active energies. Realms of potentials and seas of possibilities.
The Aether as is stands is an archaic concept that has been replaced by our modern thinking. Aspects of the Aether were reborn in our new theories and are seeing the light of day once again.
Einstein was a brilliant man, but so trapped was he in his own paradigm of thought, he was quick to dismiss that which he did not understand or could not explain. His theories have carried us far, but they only really refer to the scope of the direct physical. If you research much of quantum mechanics, most theories tear his to shreds and even replace them entirely. He could not unify electromagnetism and gravity, but we may and it will be due to a single unifying framework that this is accomplished; a role the Aether played until it was replaced with something better.
If we have any hope of understanding what lies beyond the physical, we need to look beyond what we think is possible.
Akio:
To expand on your theory, I will turn it on its end to look at it from a different angle.
As I stated before, the role of the Aether was to provide a medium for the propagation of light. As light was revealed to not need such a thing, the aether drifted out of favor. But the aether was not just an idea for the propagation of light. Newton proposed the fluidic properties of the Aether produced the gravity effects as well as regulated the density of matter. Basically the "fabric" of space and time. It was the notion that all space is in this "fluid" that it was assumed that light too propagated thusly. Early physical constants were inferred from the Aether as the "glue" that kept everything together. "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction" was described as being the pressures and stresses created in this fluid of energy.
Today, quantum mechanics suggests a quintessential energy that is regarded as a vast sea of chaotic energy. It has gone by many names, Dark Energy, quantum wave state, vacuum energy, zero-point energy and even quantum foam. Supposedly, this chaotic store of energy is the basis for everything and quantum states describe the order that comes from the directed stress put on this equilibrium-seeking energy.
To bring this full-circle, the concepts that evolved from the Aether make a good foundation for describing what could possibly be the energetic potential in psionics. The mind itself could be functioning mechanically on a level with direct interaction to this energy and through engineering information (thought) this chaotic energy can be engineered to produced defined future states with the changes you intend.
In a nutshell, all classical energy theories are convening at quantum mechanics. Classical physics is doing well to describe the physical universe, but beyond that, especially the time-domain and the realm of the mind, we are creating a new field of study with hopes of understanding what goes on and how to control it.
- Erik J. Durwood II
DigGil: The gas is spelled "ether" never aether. Secondly, the Aether concept, referred to as the "Luminiferous Aether" was originally the logically assumed medium for which light (and all energy) propagated. Indeed in the early 1900's, physicists including Einstein refined our theories to exclude the need for the Aether. But note the wording. The Aether was never disproved. Einstein himself said in the 1920 paper "Aether and the Theory of Relativity" -- [i]"More careful reflection teaches us, however, that the special theory of relativity does not compel us to deny ether." [/i]and[i] "To deny the ether is ultimately to assume that empty space has no physical qualities whatever".[/i] It served its purpose by giving us a "fundamental platform" and we grew from that. Interestingly enough, once wave/particle duality was understood, the role of the Aether changed. It being a horribly archaic concept in the modern world, we were quick to dismiss the term. But as we delved deeper into our understanding, we once again saw the need for an "all-pervading fundamental energy" from which reality is supported. Concepts like "the Medium, Zero-Point Energy and the active vacuum" exist today calling forth energy from the "time-domain." Everywhere you look in quantum mechanics, you see reference to scalars and active energies. Realms of potentials and seas of possibilities. The Aether as is stands is an archaic concept that has been replaced by our modern thinking. Aspects of the Aether were reborn in our new theories and are seeing the light of day once again. Einstein was a brilliant man, but so trapped was he in his own paradigm of thought, he was quick to dismiss that which he did not understand or could not explain. His theories have carried us far, but they only really refer to the scope of the direct physical. If you research much of quantum mechanics, most theories tear his to shreds and even replace them entirely. He could not unify electromagnetism and gravity, but we may and it will be due to a single unifying framework that this is accomplished; a role the Aether played until it was replaced with something better. If we have any hope of understanding what lies beyond the physical, we need to look beyond what we think is possible. Akio: To expand on your theory, I will turn it on its end to look at it from a different angle. As I stated before, the role of the Aether was to provide a medium for the propagation of light. As light was revealed to not need such a thing, the aether drifted out of favor. But the aether was not just an idea for the propagation of light. Newton proposed the fluidic properties of the Aether produced the gravity effects as well as regulated the density of matter. Basically the "fabric" of space and time. It was the notion that all space is in this "fluid" that it was assumed that light too propagated thusly. Early physical constants were inferred from the Aether as the "glue" that kept everything together. "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction" was described as being the pressures and stresses created in this fluid of energy. Today, quantum mechanics suggests a quintessential energy that is regarded as a vast sea of chaotic energy. It has gone by many names, Dark Energy, quantum wave state, vacuum energy, zero-point energy and even quantum foam. Supposedly, this chaotic store of energy is the basis for everything and quantum states describe the order that comes from the directed stress put on this equilibrium-seeking energy. To bring this full-circle, the concepts that evolved from the Aether make a good foundation for describing what could possibly be the energetic potential in psionics. The mind itself could be functioning mechanically on a level with direct interaction to this energy and through engineering information (thought) this chaotic energy can be engineered to produced defined future states with the changes you intend. In a nutshell, all classical energy theories are convening at quantum mechanics. Classical physics is doing well to describe the physical universe, but beyond that, especially the time-domain and the realm of the mind, we are creating a new field of study with hopes of understanding what goes on and how to control it. - Erik J. Durwood II

Last edited by ErikJDurwoodII, 4 years, 8 months ago
Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

Akio

Ah, just to explain a little better on my part, I'm not really talking about Chaos Energy, or Dark energy, or, maybe I am, for I do not know what to Describe it as.
Put simply, I feel that the aether wasn'tt ever wrong, but that it was on a smaller plane that what we have thought about.
My Idea here is that Psi is actually the driving force behind the Forming of Quarks, which are the Foundation of Protons, electrons, and neutrons. My thought is that it's not really randomness, but open to influence by other forms of energy. like a subatomic version of what we have already established, but open to more influences because of the size that we are dealing with.
Because of this, energies that our brains could produce could effect the natural flow of this force and bend it to our whim.
I'm not Saying we're backtracking because of referring to Psi as real, I'm saying we're backtracking because you're trying to put it along the same level as normal physics.
What I've noticed along that line as well is that when you try to state that Aether is at the atomic level, you end up fighting an uphill battle. Mainly that is because the Deffinition of Aether, if you tell a scientist that it's the atomic level, then he'll think, for one, that you're a fool who doesn't know basic physics, and two, that what you're acctually reffering to is an Archaic term for Energy, which has a much simpler (or rather, more easily measured) pattern of movement.
Sorry for not making myself clear earlier, my thought was in a jumble and I wanted to much to put the information out there. Seems I didn't get everything across.
Ah, just to explain a little better on my part, I'm not really talking about Chaos Energy, or Dark energy, or, maybe I am, for I do not know what to Describe it as. Put simply, I feel that the aether wasn'tt ever wrong, but that it was on a smaller plane that what we have thought about. My Idea here is that Psi is actually the driving force behind the Forming of Quarks, which are the Foundation of Protons, electrons, and neutrons. My thought is that it's not really randomness, but open to influence by other forms of energy. like a subatomic version of what we have already established, but open to more influences because of the size that we are dealing with. Because of this, energies that our brains could produce could effect the natural flow of this force and bend it to our whim. I'm not Saying we're backtracking because of referring to Psi as real, I'm saying we're backtracking because you're trying to put it along the same level as normal physics. What I've noticed along that line as well is that when you try to state that Aether is at the atomic level, you end up fighting an uphill battle. Mainly that is because the Deffinition of Aether, if you tell a scientist that it's the atomic level, then he'll think, for one, that you're a fool who doesn't know basic physics, and two, that what you're acctually reffering to is an Archaic term for Energy, which has a much simpler (or rather, more easily measured) pattern of movement. Sorry for not making myself clear earlier, my thought was in a jumble and I wanted to much to put the information out there. Seems I didn't get everything across.

Last edited by Akio, 4 years, 8 months ago
Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

ErikJDurwoodII

So many times people wind up disagreeing on a subject but it turns out it's only on the level of semantics and not concepts. Depending on who you talk to (and their educational history) Terms like Aether, Psi, Chaos Energy, and the sort have different meanings. They were introduced to them in different ways and they integrated the concepts in to their paradigms differently.
That being said, I agree with what I think it is you are saying, but I have taken a bit more time to be more careful with the wording. ^__^
I regard "psi" in the same way "wind" is. There is no "thing" called wind. It is just moving air. By that same token "potential energy controlled by the mind" is what I deem "psi."
Psi is a very neutral term but it can get brought in to take the place of other (more appropriate) terms to give the subject a mystique and class that "guards" it from empirical testing.
In any event, most of the data I have (and that's a lot) suggests that the very framework that allows for physicality itself and the passage of time is what allows for our mind to impregnate our thoughts and intent on to our environment and commit changes for future events.
Think of it like this:
Quantum mechanics suggests that something "isn't until it is." and "until it IS it could be anything." Now obviously that's a gross over-simplification of probability and likelihood but it serves the point. ^__^
History describes the passage of "something" through time. The arrangement of information from the past will describe the likely future state of the "thing" in the next frame of time. Now, looking ahead, the further you get into the future, the less exact, and likely, the future states become. The lines of probability diverge hyperbolically on to infinity.
Now, "permanence" can be described as "adequate information describing future states." If you place an object on the table, it is there. There is adequate history to describe it being there and it will continue to be there until action is taken to change that. This is in stark contrast to the photons that we see "pop" into existence from an unknown source. They have basically no history to describe where they appear let alone their trajectory or even their physical properties. They could show up anywhere in the universe. Interestingly enough, many theorize that they appear mostly where we expect to "see" them. ^__^
All change needs energy. Energy does the "work" of change and information "describes" that change.
I won't go much deeper into this as it (the possible mechanism for psionics) is a bit lengthly. I WILL say however that the data suggests strongly that the mind matter interaction is built on configuring potential energy (from the "wherever") with thought (information) to predicate "custom" future states of matter. And the broader the change, the more energy that is needed.
The "source" of this energy (possibly all energy) when manipulated by the mind, is what we call "Psi."
I don't call the power coming from my wall socket "hydroelectricity" even though that's what it is. It was generated at a hydroelectric power plant using the energy of flowing water. It's just "power."
On a semantic level "psi" is just "energy;" the same energy that is with everything else. The qualifying factor here is that it was catalyzed using the mind. But as you go deeper and look at other energy interactions, even those that exclude the mind, "psi" starts to get watered down.
Still, what is important is not the words, but the data. The Experiments. The concepts.
We have only just begun and I personally can see a wondrous future. ^__^
- Erik J. Durwood II
So many times people wind up disagreeing on a subject but it turns out it's only on the level of semantics and not concepts. Depending on who you talk to (and their educational history) Terms like Aether, Psi, Chaos Energy, and the sort have different meanings. They were introduced to them in different ways and they integrated the concepts in to their paradigms differently. That being said, I agree with what I think it is you are saying, but I have taken a bit more time to be more careful with the wording. ^__^ I regard "psi" in the same way "wind" is. There is no "thing" called wind. It is just moving air. By that same token "potential energy controlled by the mind" is what I deem "psi." Psi is a very neutral term but it can get brought in to take the place of other (more appropriate) terms to give the subject a mystique and class that "guards" it from empirical testing. In any event, most of the data I have (and that's a lot) suggests that the very framework that allows for physicality itself and the passage of time is what allows for our mind to impregnate our thoughts and intent on to our environment and commit changes for future events. Think of it like this: Quantum mechanics suggests that something "isn't until it is." and "until it IS it could be anything." Now obviously that's a gross over-simplification of probability and likelihood but it serves the point. ^__^ History describes the passage of "something" through time. The arrangement of information from the past will describe the likely future state of the "thing" in the next frame of time. Now, looking ahead, the further you get into the future, the less exact, and likely, the future states become. The lines of probability diverge hyperbolically on to infinity. Now, "permanence" can be described as "adequate information describing future states." If you place an object on the table, it is there. There is adequate history to describe it being there and it will continue to be there until action is taken to change that. This is in stark contrast to the photons that we see "pop" into existence from an unknown source. They have basically no history to describe where they appear let alone their trajectory or even their physical properties. They could show up anywhere in the universe. Interestingly enough, many theorize that they appear mostly where we expect to "see" them. ^__^ All change needs energy. Energy does the "work" of change and information "describes" that change. I won't go much deeper into this as it (the possible mechanism for psionics) is a bit lengthly. I WILL say however that the data suggests strongly that the mind matter interaction is built on configuring potential energy (from the "wherever") with thought (information) to predicate "custom" future states of matter. And the broader the change, the more energy that is needed. The "source" of this energy (possibly all energy) when manipulated by the mind, is what we call "Psi." I don't call the power coming from my wall socket "hydroelectricity" even though that's what it is. It was generated at a hydroelectric power plant using the energy of flowing water. It's just "power." On a semantic level "psi" is just "energy;" the same energy that is with everything else. The qualifying factor here is that it was catalyzed using the mind. But as you go deeper and look at other energy interactions, even those that exclude the mind, "psi" starts to get watered down. Still, what is important is not the words, but the data. The Experiments. The concepts. We have only just begun and I personally can see a wondrous future. ^__^ - Erik J. Durwood II

Last edited by ErikJDurwoodII, 4 years, 7 months ago
Posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Akio

Ah.. You're a very well educated man Erik.
On another note, I've never seen anyone do Pk in Person, except maybe move a psi wheel. I wish I had some data on the feel of Pk, how it feels when you acctually move the object.
I'm not sure if this is getting off topic, but it's really something i'm interested in.
Ah.. You're a very well educated man Erik. On another note, I've never seen anyone do Pk in Person, except maybe move a psi wheel. I wish I had some data on the feel of Pk, how it feels when you acctually move the object. I'm not sure if this is getting off topic, but it's really something i'm interested in.

Last edited by Akio, 4 years, 7 months ago
Posted 4 years, 7 months ago

keen31

On another note, I've never seen anyone do Pk in Person, except maybe move a psi wheel. I wish I had some data on the feel of Pk, how it feels when you acctually move the object.
i realize as i start typing this im going to reference a movie/video that i cannot even remember what it was called or where i saw it... but whatever.
there was a documentary i saw once before about paranormal phenomenon and they spoke about children that were very proficient with different paranormal skills... the one part i remember clearly was that the videographer was talking with some of the children and asking them about how it feels and the children talked about the objects they are moving or manipulating (or moving through, in some cases) being part of them, and them part of the object. as if the children could become whatever it was and know what it was like to be the door, or the bottle, or whatever. "oneness" comes to mind, but i dont know that the children used that terminology.
what was even cooler was that as the cameraperson was talking with them, one of the children noticed she was concerned about not getting footage because her batteries were going low. the child said something to the effect of, "dont worry, you will get all the footage you need. and dont worry about the batteries, we can charge them for you." and to this day i still remember that part of the account because it was so impressive to the cameraperson that it really was impressive as a viewer.
i wish i could remember what thats from... i wanna say it was a documentary or some write up, but its possible it was in a hollywood movie (in which case, spare me the embarassment of my poor memory and just forget i brought it up ;)
[quote]On another note, I've never seen anyone do Pk in Person, except maybe move a psi wheel. I wish I had some data on the feel of Pk, how it feels when you acctually move the object.[/quote] i realize as i start typing this im going to reference a movie/video that i cannot even remember what it was called or where i saw it... but whatever. there was a documentary i saw once before about paranormal phenomenon and they spoke about children that were very proficient with different paranormal skills... the one part i remember clearly was that the videographer was talking with some of the children and asking them about how it feels and the children talked about the objects they are moving or manipulating (or moving through, in some cases) being part of them, and them part of the object. as if the children could become whatever it was and know what it was like to be the door, or the bottle, or whatever. "oneness" comes to mind, but i dont know that the children used that terminology. what was even cooler was that as the cameraperson was talking with them, one of the children noticed she was concerned about not getting footage because her batteries were going low. the child said something to the effect of, "dont worry, you will get all the footage you need. and dont worry about the batteries, we can charge them for you." and to this day i still remember that part of the account because it was so impressive to the cameraperson that it really was impressive as a viewer. i wish i could remember what thats from... i wanna say it was a documentary or some write up, but its possible it was in a hollywood movie (in which case, spare me the embarassment of my poor memory and just forget i brought it up ;)

Posted 4 years, 7 months ago

mrj

Keen what you are talking about reminds me of this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FfyTSjsBSXQ
(When he starts doing tk)
Keen what you are talking about reminds me of this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=FfyTSjsBSXQ (When he starts doing tk)

Last edited by mrj, 4 years, 7 months ago
Posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Akio

not a problem. I just wish I could see someone do it in person. or just someone who can really explain it.
I think there are real keys to the motion, one is feeling the link between the object you're trying to move. Unfortunately, I have no Solid proof of how it's done. It's not really that psions aren't accurate in their research, nor that they aren't having valid experiences. It's just that we as a whole, with a few exceptions, can't document everything in the detail that is required.
There is another issue with the fact that magicians document the magic tricks that give the illusion of telekenisis much better and with more effect, but that's another issue for another time.
anyway, I'll look for the clip in question, thanks for the help.
not a problem. I just wish I could see someone do it in person. or just someone who can really explain it. I think there are real keys to the motion, one is feeling the link between the object you're trying to move. Unfortunately, I have no Solid proof of how it's done. It's not really that psions aren't accurate in their research, nor that they aren't having valid experiences. It's just that we as a whole, with a few exceptions, can't document everything in the detail that is required. There is another issue with the fact that magicians document the magic tricks that give the illusion of telekenisis much better and with more effect, but that's another issue for another time. anyway, I'll look for the clip in question, thanks for the help.

Last edited by Akio, 4 years, 7 months ago
Posted 4 years, 7 months ago

ErikJDurwoodII

Well with regards to the nitty-gritty of HOW PK is possible, it's still all theories.
I have experienced, first-hand, PK done in person both by myself and my colleagues countless times. The analysis of this phenomena has brought many theories to the table but so far one has been able to be tested much more successfully than any of the others. That theory ... is for another discussion later. ^__^
However, the gist of it describes that when a mind observes an object, the mental counterpart links with the physical counterpart on an information level. The changes you cause to the entangled counterpart in your mind will be communicated to the physical object in tandem. Provided there is enough available energy to execute the changes, the next future moments in time will be created reflecting those changes.
Basically, we write "an addendum to the future" that commits the changes we visualize.
This theory has held up to lots of testing though there currently doesn't exist a means to directly observe this interaction.
The key is having enough available energy to fuel the actions.
With grass-roots PK, there is often enough available energy for tiny effects like moving wheels and such. Gravity can be seen as a "potential vector" where being able to affect the trajectory of this energy AS potential, you can use the natural properties of the material to move it.
But most people when moving on to larger things hit a wall. I suspect this is due to inadequate energy for the action.
A small foil psi-wheel has very little friction to impede the rotation, but the metal has adequate density to "carry" gravity.
If you are curious, this is possibly why it seems that a foil psi wheel is superior to a paper one. Wad a square of paper and a square of foil into a ball and flick it. The foil feels much denser even though there is less "volume" or material.
An independent researcher, Mel Winfield, has a theory of "Nucleonic Energy" which basically uses a "special" electromagnetic field to manipulate the trajectory of particles in atoms to "shift their velocity" in desired directions.
This is a much more complex, yet similar theory.
In any event, at this stage of the game, we are pretty confident in our theories as to HOW PK works. Right now, we are working on how to produce an excess of the "potential energy" needed to fuel some very large and grandiose PK effects. By having a "freedom of energy," we will be able to investigate the mechanism much easier and with more affect. No more, "maybe the wind blew the wheel" but instead "I need my sunglasses to view this flared psi ball! Steve! Stop levitating that small-block Chevy engine and come over here and see this!"
Heh. We'll see.
^__^
- Erik
Well with regards to the nitty-gritty of HOW PK is possible, it's still all theories. I have experienced, first-hand, PK done in person both by myself and my colleagues countless times. The analysis of this phenomena has brought many theories to the table but so far one has been able to be tested much more successfully than any of the others. That theory ... is for another discussion later. ^__^ However, the gist of it describes that when a mind observes an object, the mental counterpart links with the physical counterpart on an information level. The changes you cause to the entangled counterpart in your mind will be communicated to the physical object in tandem. Provided there is enough available energy to execute the changes, the next future moments in time will be created reflecting those changes. Basically, we write "an addendum to the future" that commits the changes we visualize. This theory has held up to lots of testing though there currently doesn't exist a means to directly observe this interaction. The key is having enough available energy to fuel the actions. With grass-roots PK, there is often enough available energy for tiny effects like moving wheels and such. Gravity can be seen as a "potential vector" where being able to affect the trajectory of this energy AS potential, you can use the natural properties of the material to move it. But most people when moving on to larger things hit a wall. I suspect this is due to inadequate energy for the action. A small foil psi-wheel has very little friction to impede the rotation, but the metal has adequate density to "carry" gravity. If you are curious, this is possibly why it seems that a foil psi wheel is superior to a paper one. Wad a square of paper and a square of foil into a ball and flick it. The foil feels much denser even though there is less "volume" or material. An independent researcher, Mel Winfield, has a theory of "Nucleonic Energy" which basically uses a "special" electromagnetic field to manipulate the trajectory of particles in atoms to "shift their velocity" in desired directions. This is a much more complex, yet similar theory. In any event, at this stage of the game, we are pretty confident in our theories as to HOW PK works. Right now, we are working on how to produce an excess of the "potential energy" needed to fuel some very large and grandiose PK effects. By having a "freedom of energy," we will be able to investigate the mechanism much easier and with more affect. No more, "maybe the wind blew the wheel" but instead "I need my sunglasses to view this flared psi ball! Steve! Stop levitating that small-block Chevy engine and come over here and see this!" Heh. We'll see. ^__^ - Erik

Last edited by ErikJDurwoodII, 4 years, 7 months ago
Posted 4 years, 7 months ago

somefatguy

"But most people when moving on to larger things hit a wall. I suspect this is due to inadequate energy for the action."
I agree with this Erik, but, I have another idea that could also be a possibility.
Let's talk about leverage. We can put energy into an action to move something. But, we all know that with proper leverage, or a better leverage, we can move the said object with less energy needed. So, my idea is that maybe we do not actually need more energy to move a larger object, but need some type of better "leverage." I do not know how exactly to obtain more leverage on moving bigger objects, it may work the same way as moving a door with your hand--pushing farthest to the opposite side of the hinges, or, in PK terms to move a larger object it could require a stronger connection between the person and object.
"But most people when moving on to larger things hit a wall. I suspect this is due to inadequate energy for the action." I agree with this Erik, but, I have another idea that could also be a possibility. Let's talk about leverage. We can put energy into an action to move something. But, we all know that with proper leverage, or a better leverage, we can move the said object with less energy needed. So, my idea is that maybe we do not actually need more energy to move a larger object, but need some type of better "leverage." I do not know how exactly to obtain more leverage on moving bigger objects, it may work the same way as moving a door with your hand--pushing farthest to the opposite side of the hinges, or, in PK terms to move a larger object it could require a stronger connection between the person and object.

Posted 4 years, 7 months ago

ErikJDurwoodII

Leverage is about how the energy is distributed, not augmenting the energy requirements.
If a certain amount of energy (work) is required to move an object, then that's how much is needed. Leverage allows you to distribute the mechanical force to require less "effort," not less total "work".
But yes I understand your point. That carries into another point that is very important. Efficiency. I feel that while "more work needs more energy" is a true statement, it can also be assumed that we are not making best use of the energy we currently use. It could be seen as using leverage or other techniques to make more efficient use of the energy at hand.
Inadequate energy could be just "overly wasted energy" in disguise...
- Erik
Leverage is about how the energy is distributed, not augmenting the energy requirements. If a certain amount of energy (work) is required to move an object, then that's how much is needed. Leverage allows you to distribute the mechanical force to require less "effort," not less total "work". But yes I understand your point. That carries into another point that is very important. Efficiency. I feel that while "more work needs more energy" is a true statement, it can also be assumed that we are not making best use of the energy we currently use. It could be seen as using leverage or other techniques to make more efficient use of the energy at hand. Inadequate energy could be just "overly wasted energy" in disguise... - Erik

Posted 4 years, 7 months ago

somefatguy

Yep, everything you just said there was what I was trying to say. :)
Yep, everything you just said there was what I was trying to say. :)

Posted 4 years, 7 months ago

mrj

How could we get access to more energy? Would it be a device of some sort, or "just our minds"?
How could we get access to more energy? Would it be a device of some sort, or "just our minds"?

Posted 4 years, 7 months ago

Akio

I was thinking about what you were saying... and I waswondering, could we infact take potential energy, and direct it throgh another means in order to creat pk?
for example, If I took energy from a rock on a mountain side and directed it into the energy required for Pk, would that be possible? Would it cause a Paradox?
on that same thought, if I were to use Pk, or otherwise move an object at sea level, and then did the same thing, with the same amount of energy on a mountaintop, would I get better results?
I can easily move a psiwheel, given that I'm focussed on the taskat hand, but there are to many factors that could be used to Explain the effects hen it comes to Pk. So I guess I was Wrong in saying that I've never seen Pk in action, rather, that I can't be sure that I have.
I was thinking about what you were saying... and I waswondering, could we infact take potential energy, and direct it throgh another means in order to creat pk? for example, If I took energy from a rock on a mountain side and directed it into the energy required for Pk, would that be possible? Would it cause a Paradox? on that same thought, if I were to use Pk, or otherwise move an object at sea level, and then did the same thing, with the same amount of energy on a mountaintop, would I get better results? I can easily move a psiwheel, given that I'm focussed on the taskat hand, but there are to many factors that could be used to Explain the effects hen it comes to Pk. So I guess I was Wrong in saying that I've never seen Pk in action, rather, that I can't be sure that I have.

Last edited by Akio, 4 years, 7 months ago
Posted 4 years, 7 months ago

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